Alteil online card game

Discussion in 'Now Playing' started by Fry, Nov 13, 2009.

  1. Fry

    Fry Well-Known Member

    Anyone else played any of this? Having to pick your starter deck without getting to play with any of them first sucks (love ya, Kongai!). Also, wish they would just call the four colors Red, Blue, Light, Dark, so I could tell the difference. I know the Red deck I picked is Gowen, because most of the cards do stuff based on my Gowen level but I cannot figure out/keep straight the names of the other three colors, because most of their cards don't care about Refess/Lawtia/whatever level.

    + deckbuilding
    - collectible
    + no bad draws (essentially, your deck is your hand)
    + free game
    - card unlocking is slow unless you pay big money; if you want free cards, you have to grind a Concentration minigame every day
    - (read about on forums) super awesome dominant card was a limited time promo released last year
    - no ability to trade cards with other players (largely irrelevant in Kongai; important here)
    - as a player of other CCGs, it is very hard to figure out WTF is going on with tempo in game
  2. LoneKnight

    LoneKnight Well-Known Member

    Oh gawd. I played this. Card unlocking is impossibly mindnumbingly sloooooow if you don't pay, or mind spending hours a day beating that stupid card unlocking game. Also, Starting decks are pretty bad compared to what you can do with constructed decks, AND THE META IS WORKING AGAINST YOU.

    Like, I chose the black starter pack, and the cheapest "upgrade" from that is to go lycanthropes. However, the "strong" light deck right now effectively counters that. Lycanthropes get boosts at night. The light deck is called eternal day and has a card that costs 2 mana and automatically sets the time to day, overriding all "night time" effects you can achieve with commons.

    Also, the new starterpacks<old starterpacks. Basically, they stripped off all the good cards from starter packs (mad priest, Le Beau from black, royal guard from white... and I can't remember red/blue)... that sucks hard.

    The game is actually refreshing, although the random hits are very, very annoying for me.

    You can just create a new account and pick a new starterpack BTW. Though, red is good. Don't pick black, it's the worst by far.

    Actually if you want to play a few games, I'm LoneKnight over there as well.
  3. Gavisi

    Gavisi Well-Known Member

    I will try this later. I'm not excited about all the new stuff to learn though, I looked at a card and it had like 5 different abilities that wanted Soul and did damage depending on my AT and such. Also, are they really calling it "editing a file" instead of "building a deck"? I can deal with jargon, but blargh.

    Art is nice though.
  4. Alhazard

    Alhazard Well-Known Member

    Alteil Review
    (-) Random Packs
    (-) Rarity
    (-) Blue is the best last time I checked
    (-) Bad cards in starter decks
    (-) Bad Randomness; do you know that if two creatures tie for attack speed, that who gets to attack first is determined randomly? Imagine that in Kongia and you can imagine how horrible that is
    (+) Web based
  5. LoneKnight

    LoneKnight Well-Known Member

    And then you get to attack which picks one of the viable targets, again, randomly...

    This game has so much potential, the ruleset has a bunch of "safety nets" that can reverse the slippery slope with good planning, simple, easy to play, great "comboability" even with basic cards, and then rarity and randomness pretty much ruins it ...
  6. Eji1700

    Eji1700 Well-Known Member

    I play black and actually do ok. A few simple modifications help and you don't actually run into meta quality decks until you've gotten quite a few level up cards since you'll be playing in....the uh....middle tier arena. I've been meaning to continue playing this because although i don't always love it I do think it's well made and quite fun. Also how the hell do you need to spend hours a day playing the mini game? It takes me maybe 10 min(still 10 min too long though) to play through since you only need to win once per day. Farming Fight money is quite frankly pointless and insane.

    Oh and if you don't like random attacking go blue. Great deck, good options, and several cards that allow you to actually choose who you attack(which since the game is balanced around the random aspect makes them damn powerful).

    Also there's some logic to the concept of no trading, but it is screwed by how they do card acquisition. It could be better but they don't seem to be up to doing that.
  7. LoneKnight

    LoneKnight Well-Known Member

    Obviously, I try to get the most money/day out of it by playing the hard mode. And then it's heavily based on luck... not to mention that when I play on the sucky computer the images load so slow that sometimes I get overtime even when I'd actually win XD

    And yeah, the new decks probably made the meta shift a bit, which means maybe I won't encounter ED decks... maybe. Just saying that they weren't "meta decks" it's just that they were good decks that were extremely strong against my deck to boot; still, I've started out with black and made too much effort to switch to blue now (besides, blue is top tier and cheap. /scrub).
  8. Fry

    Fry Well-Known Member

    It's funny, the very first PvP match I played was against a Black deck, where he set out several "huge at night, sucks on the other turns" characters, and then played the "this turn counts as night" card for like four straight turns. Yeah, I got mauled.

    One match I played, the opponent had two "wipe red creatures off the board" among his soul cards, and I still won with my red deck, because I was just crushing him so much. Crazy.
  9. LoneKnight

    LoneKnight Well-Known Member

    Didn't you play against me? XD

    Anyway,the light decks's cards overwrite the effect of those (as they turn time to day when it's their turn in the queue while succubus is an "open" effect). Also, there is a black counterpart to those which changes time to always night. I wouldn't even be using succubuses (succubii?) if I had one, but alas, it's a 5 star :p

    Anyway, after getting a bit back into the game, it seems far less grindy than I remember. There are a lot of people playing "dumb red" right now though...
  10. garcia1000

    garcia1000 World Champion Moderator (old) Staff Member

    Is there a deck which plays like control/douchebag? I only play those decks.
  11. Eji1700

    Eji1700 Well-Known Member

    Blue. Retreat and some sort of "send chosen monster back to enemy deck" spell which is amazing due to how this has been done. Lots of other douchbag aspects as well. Fencers, fast cards, and the aforementioned choose your target cards which make your front line tanks suddenly worthless. Blue is definitely the deck of the douchebag.

    Then again black can be too. It's probably the only color that can do anything any of the others can, but there's obvious difficulties doing that.
  12. garcia1000

    garcia1000 World Champion Moderator (old) Staff Member

    Okay, I picked blue as my starter deck and won a game against some random guy!

    Even after going through the entire tutorial, I still have totally no idea what those five sidecards (on the left middle of the screen) do. They activate at random times when I take damage or my guy is killed and not revived, but when? And how do I set them?
  13. Bucky

    Bucky Well-Known Member

    Those are your life cards. Each has a certain number of hit points (usually 1 or 2) associated with it. Each one triggers when it loses its last hit point. (they take damage in a preset sequence). And you can change them from the same screen as the rest of the deck.
  14. Eji1700

    Eji1700 Well-Known Member

    They are without a doubt one of the most important aspects of the game.

    Basically as follows:
    1 life point: Very good effect.
    2 life points: random or decent effect or no effect.
    3 life points: Usually a negative effect.

    If a card has an effect it's called a soul skill. Any card can be used as a soul card but not all have skills.

    So what you want to do is have some one point cards at the end so they activate early. My black deck counted on me losing a card my second turn so i could put my enemy behind by 2-3 spheres(which is a pretty big advantage). So basically a 1 point card that will activate when i choose not to revive my card(because you only take damage when a spell hits, a creature isn't revived, or they iczar attack you(which can be done by any card if you have nothing on the field and costs one sphere)).

    In the middle you probably want some sort of heavy hitter. I have an assassin card that lets me sacrifice a card to kill and remove one of theirs which is nice if they have something big or important on the field and another which allows me to(in combination with a 2 point spell) return a creature to their hand. Also very useful on expensive cards since they don't get the points back they normally would if it had just died.

    Finally at the end you usually have a 3 point anchor. Mine removes a card randomly from my deck. This obviously is almost never good and only the rarest of cards have neutral effects and 3 points(the gods i think).

    In general you want to change your soul cards asap and your life point total should be around 7-9 points. They have forums with some pretty decent start soul setups and switches you may want to make. I suggest you look into it because it can seriously alter how you play.
  15. garcia1000

    garcia1000 World Champion Moderator (old) Staff Member

    Wow, thanks! I never knew this. Useful information, I'll check it out.
  16. Fry

    Fry Well-Known Member

    Is it better to spend your money on slot machine pulls, or save up to buy a booster pack?
  17. LoneKnight

    LoneKnight Well-Known Member

    I prefer the slot. Especially if you are just starting out. You can recycle whatever you get for at least half the price anyway. Out of 15-22 cards you are bound to find more useful stuff than in that 5 card booster you'd buy from that price, especially because although the rare cards are better they also tend to be more specific. Lvl1 cards are sometimes worth that little dip. That, and with some luck you can get the key rares from levelups.

    If only there was a trading this system would work out quite well... almost perfect.
  18. Gavisi

    Gavisi Well-Known Member

    General impression I got from the forums was lottery first to improve your deck, then boosters to get rarer cards. Also, booster boxes give 15 boosters for the price of 14, and apparently guarantee rare cards, while buying individual boosters is more luck of the draw.

    The game itself would be pretty cool if only it wasn't for the crappy randomness. Same speed creatures, who goes first is determined by luck. It really is the difference between "Heads, my creature kills your creature, tails, your creature kills my creature".

    Also, to emphasize how bad the grinding is: with a starter deck, the best you can probably get is 10 Gran (money) a day from Mirage Master, and 10 a week from Arena games. You can get more than 10 from Arena if you win a lot, but uh, you have a crappy starter deck, don't count on it. So 80 a week. A booster pack of 5 random cards costs 150 Gran. Two weeks of grinding gets you 5 random cards. Awesome.

    The lottery has better returns on Gran spent / number of cards, but the lottery usually only gives common cards.

    Well, you can always spend money.
  19. Fry

    Fry Well-Known Member

    I am 7-2 so far with my crappy starter deck, and I'm not an old pro starting on a new account or anything.
  20. LoneKnight

    LoneKnight Well-Known Member

    And I just beat a lvl90 who had a deck full of silly rares (well, he left. Regardless, I levelup'd twice). He was probably testing things.

    Anyways, this still doesn't mean that my deck can stand up to most "serious" decks in the folrart arena. It's just that it seems there are a lot of players fooling around (or playing stupid red. Seriously, if I see another person opening with monk/spores/Kurina...)
  21. Fry

    Fry Well-Known Member

    Ah, that could be it. I have been playing in Crest, and almost all of my matches, the opponent opens with Shade, then the guy who gets +20 DEF at night.
  22. LoneKnight

    LoneKnight Well-Known Member

    Well, Crest IS the noob arena :p

    So black is popular down there? Intriguing. I almost never met other black players when I played. You probably know this anyway, but a good strategy may be to put 3 points into spheres then play a lvl2 to make the ability of the shade useless. That strategy works well if you play red, since you want to pump your sphere early anyway for rankups (which is why I absolutely detested reds back when I had to use shades).
  23. garcia1000

    garcia1000 World Champion Moderator (old) Staff Member

    I played a bit more

    (-) Rarer cards are strictly better, not just more versatile or more focused
    (-) Need to grind for rare cards

    0/10 would play ElementsCCG instead
  24. Gavisi

    Gavisi Well-Known Member

    Is Elements multiplayer any good? I've never played it before. I never felt during my False God grinding that there were any meaningful choices to make, but maybe it's different against people.

    I will probably play Alteil for a couple more days before I get bored with my starter deck. Then I'll realize that I'm weeks of grinding away from a better, or hell, even different deck. That'll be when I'm done.
  25. Fry

    Fry Well-Known Member

    Really? This game seems better than Elements by a wide margin. The grinding is basically the same, but there is more actual gameplay in Alteil. Is it just that you've already done the grinding for Elements, or is there more to it?
  26. Gavisi

    Gavisi Well-Known Member

    Grinding in Elements is much much much better than Alteil. Takes about 2 hours from a new account to make a deck than can reliably kill a few of the False Gods, then you grind those Gods and forfeit to the other Gods. It's not fast, but you can get yourself a fully upgraded deck in a few days. And a fully upgraded deck means you grind that much faster.

    Looks to me like it would take months to get an Alteil deck that can compete at the top level. You're also at the mercy of luck to get the cards you want (Point Cards are ridiculously expensive, ignore them). In Elements, you are at the mercy of luck to get the rare weapons, but you really only need one copy of each. The rest of the cards in the game can be directly bought. When you're grinding False Gods, it doesn't matter what upgraded card you get from the slots, they all sell for the same large amount.

    Alteil is much better gameplay than Elements, imo, but the grind is just crazy bad. Also I'd be interested in knowing how much luck matters in top Alteil play. Yesterday I saw how variable Combat Monk is.
  27. Gavisi

    Gavisi Well-Known Member

    Alteil is too complicated for a grinding script to work. But I would like to see your Elements script.
  28. LoneKnight

    LoneKnight Well-Known Member

    Not to mention that I don't think AI opponents work for grinding. That said, a "mirage master" script would be handy for that extra 30 (I think that's what it gives on hardest difficulty) gran/day :p

    Weird thing with alteil, there are so many cards you can use in your deck... I just keep randoming and be like "hey,this'd be cool!"... I just don't feel the pressure of having to copy top decks 1:1 (or close to it anyway) to win.This isprobably because most abilities are using creature stats, so there's a lot of "natural synergy" going around with cards.

    I really like the design. Hell, I'm tempted to just rip off all the cards and host it somewhere so one can play without all the grind. I really wonder if it'd become degenerate high level and it's not just the grindy stuff keeping the game fresh...
  29. garcia1000

    garcia1000 World Champion Moderator (old) Staff Member

    The grinding is 100x worse. ElementsCCG I grinded all the cards in like 5 days, and this was idling time. In Alteil I will have to play mix-master for a year or something.

    Both games suffer from the "some card combos are much better than starter decks" problem, but Elements allows you to overcome this quickly. Not really so with Alteil.

    I'm sure Alteil would be a great game with a full card set maybe.
  30. garcia1000

    garcia1000 World Champion Moderator (old) Staff Member

    So yeah basically

    (+/-) deckbuilding
    (-) collectible
    (+) no bad draws (essentially, your deck is your hand)
    (+) free game
    (---------------------------------) card unlocking is slow unless you pay big money; if you want free cards, you have to grind a Concentration minigame every day
    (-------------------------------------) can't even pay for full game, have to buy lame packs
  31. Eji1700

    Eji1700 Well-Known Member

    Couple of things:
    Many good decks consist of mostly rarity 1-3.

    You can get a full set of rare 1's if you play for about 3 months. Less if you don't care for other colors(although with soul skills working across colors it's unwise to ditch anything). This is just doing the level 4 match game(10 gran a day).

    While some ex cards are amazing many aren't actually better than their originals.

    Not that the game is great, but i find it fun to play casually. I'm happy with my modified little starter and I do like that you don't just browse the forums and find the meta smashing deck and build it asap. Each player has to kind of adapt to work with what they have. Hell elements felt done within 2 days. I had a deck that could kill any of the gods and didn't feel like grinding the rest since it wouldn't change anything. Aletil i still occasionally have fun with.
  32. garcia1000

    garcia1000 World Champion Moderator (old) Staff Member

    I am still doing the daily card challenge thing. Beginner **** gives the best return.

    I will post again in this thread in a month or so! Maybe then I will upgrade rating to "Need to play dumb game for a few months before you can play the real game, 2/10"

    Edit: I won a rarity 2 card from winning a "treasure match" or whatever, sweet!
  33. Gavisi

    Gavisi Well-Known Member

    Looking over the Alteil forums, I found these important points:

    -Lottery is best for newbies, as it gives you more cards than anything else.
    -A box gives 15 packs for the price of 14, but boxes tend to have worse luck getting rare cards. Only reason to buy packs/boxes over lottery is to get rarer cards, so I would say screw boxes, get packs.
    -EX 5 packs will likely be coming out in less than a month or so. EX packs are the same 150 Gran for 5 cards as normal packs, but the contents of an EX pack are always the same. And, EX packs are limited time only. Seems worthwhile to save for them.

    Also I would strongly suggest getting the Red starter.
  34. Eji1700

    Eji1700 Well-Known Member

    I'll expand on that:
    You won't be hitting meta level decks until you're level 15. Because of this you can actually choose any color you want and probably do well. If your smart or willing to ask for help on the forums by the time you're 15 you should be able to compete in the high level arena but expect to lose.

    The top meta:
    1. Primclone
    2. EM
    3. SK
    The only one of those that matters at all is primclone and you almost certainly will not hit it until you're past 15. Primclone sadly relies on having an EX card(which you cannot obtain right now) and cyclone and essentially lets you return the entire enemy field to their hand. The good news is that since it relies on an EX card not everyone can run it(in fact anyone who started playing after set 3 can't). The bad news is that there's few counters and they make decks very awkward. The good news again is that primclone has raped for so long it's likely to be nerfed soon. Especially so if an EX shop hits and people can suddenly access the card that it centers around. Hopefully the next set release will deal with this.

    The colors with a glance:
    Red/Gowen: Probably the best and the easiest. A lot of very simple things that lead to easy victories(combat monk). Few downsides, nice cards, things like flame arrow. Often recommended and very easy to play. Both the starter and the various better decks centered around this are good.

    Yellow/Refress: Heavily centered around being defensive and buffing. Tough to play and tough to stay competitive with the starter, however some very good cards in the color itself. Guardian is the ultimate scrub smasher and you can expect your wins to skyrocket once/if you get one. Basically you'll have problems with the starter but there's a lot of key cards from this color that can help you later on and by no means is it unwinable.

    Blue/Falklow: takes some skill to use but very very powerful. I'd argue the starter is better than red's starter in the right hands and it easily keeps up with red as time goes on. Some amazing spells such as return and cyclone eat rushes and are almost always good to have, and great starting cards. Fencer leads to crazy damage that most scrubs can't handle, several target selecting cards to pick apart strats, lots of stuff that can be very powerful. Only real downside is that they require some setup and a serious plan. If you don't want red but want an easy road blue is a very strong choice.

    Purple/Lawtia: Heavily underrated. I run this and have hit 10 win streaks with a modified starter(note that none of the cards used in this starter were actually gotten through lotto. Just some SS movement and shifting a few useless cards out), but if you don't know what you're doing you will lose. In a way lawtia can do everything everyone else can, and at the same time has all the downsides everyone else does. You really need to use your Soulskills and plan them accordingly and most wins will have you at less that 4lp. As i said it can do just about anything from tanking(regen knight/moonlight warrior), insane offense(lycans/cem rat), SP drain(Shade, shade soldier), support(magic doll), control(assassin, druid) etc. Probably the hardest to play but surprisingly strong until 15 if done right.
  35. garcia1000

    garcia1000 World Champion Moderator (old) Staff Member

    I am re-rating this to 2/10 because the underlying design is really good.
    Would be like 9/10, but subtract 7 points for the card acquisition thing.

    Blue really needs rapidly flying apprentice in the starter deck. That thing makes a deck, imo.
  36. Gavisi

    Gavisi Well-Known Member

    I'll expand on some stuff Eji said.

    Primclone is "Play Primrose EX to reduce all opponent's creatures' levels by 2, then use Cyclone which bounces all level 2 or lower creatures." So all opponent creatures level 4 or lower get bounced. Impossible to build right now, really good, hopefully gets nerfed.

    EM is Eternal Morning, keeps the battletime at morning, then assaults with cards that are better during morning. One of the really good cards is an EX card, and another one is 5-star rarity, so not easy to build.

    SK is Shrine Knights. Spams the Shrine Knights from set 5, which all give each other stat boosts. Kinda boring, because it's just tribal creature crap, but it wins a lot.

    The Falkow starter hasn't impressed me when I compare it to Gowen. You are very reliant on Rapier plus speed boosts. Once you've used all your speed boosts, or your opponent destroys them (high RNG card hitting Song Sorceress or whatever), then you have no heavy hitters. Azure Dragon is costly and hard to use. I also think that it's harder to upgrade the Falkow deck since it's more reliant on combinations of cards. Gowen can just run a bunch of individually strong units and burn Grimoires and win.
  37. garcia1000

    garcia1000 World Champion Moderator (old) Staff Member

    Any idea what is the base frequency of treasure battles? I know win streaks give a bonus. So far in around 20 (?) games, I've had three and won two.

    I had much better results with my starter Falkow after switching to Endurance soul skills (+2 SP in first slot, then 2x Ruby carbuncle in 2/3 slots)
  38. Fry

    Fry Well-Known Member

    I would be 10x better at the stupid minigame if it was just numbers instead of card pictures. I don't have any context for the majority of those cards, and they're really tiny so it's hard to figure out what they're supposed to be. Some of them I can give little names to that I'll remember easily, like "Saiyan," "Big Snake," or "Spear", and the one card that's actually in my deck (Samurai Girl) I can get every time, but there are entirely too many "Guy Standing There" for me to do well at remembering WHICH Guy Standing There was in what position.

    Also, I wish it would count down "number of mistakes remaining" to give you a game over, instead of "number of moves remaining". The situation of "can't possibly win, but still have ten moves left" comes up all the time, and it is annoying to go click "quit" and then a confirm button, before I can try again.
  39. LoneKnight

    LoneKnight Well-Known Member

    After you get the game over in mirage master (win or lose), you can hover your mouse over the flipped cards to get a name and a description. That said, I had/have the same problem.

    I only wish there was a trading mode. I'm tempted to start from the beginning with a new lawtia deck and pray that I get the cards I need this time while leveling up....
  40. Eji1700

    Eji1700 Well-Known Member

    Well on the plus side they seem to finally be getting their head around the idea that it's kinda hard and pricey to get off the ground so they're doing beginner packs. Essentially 5 bucks and you're 100% certain to get some crucial cards for whatever color your shooting for. Then again doesn't help the free players much, but i imagine that's not their goal.
  41. Gavisi

    Gavisi Well-Known Member

    Yeah, they're releasing EX packs on Monday that contain limited time cards and cost 400 Gran. They don't give a shit about free players.

    Also the Japanese version of Alteil has lower costs for pretty much everything, so we can indeed point fingers at the English GMs for not caring.
  42. Eji1700

    Eji1700 Well-Known Member

    Speaking of i think you just kicked my ass a few minutes ago.
  43. garcia1000

    garcia1000 World Champion Moderator (old) Staff Member

    My name is garcia1000 on Alteil, add me! I have a modified starter Falkow deck which is doing pretty okay against other starter decks!

    Here is my deck

    Soul Skills: Witch (+2 SP), Ruby Carbuncle x 2 (+1 SP, two cards from cemetery to deck), Wizard Soldier of Regus (30 damage, -20 AT, engaged), Harpy (-1 AGI)

    Bog Wyvern
    3x Rapier Fencer
    3x Haste Soldier
    2x Song Sorceress
    3x Magic Scythe Soldier
    3x Sea Hunter
    3x Swallow Scout
    3x Undine Soldier
    2x Sylph
    2x Vordore

    I want to switch out 3x Swallow Scout for 2x Sky Staff Sorceress and an extra Return. Also if I could swap out Wyvern for another Vordore. Also thinking of switching 3x Undine Soldier for Spell Lancers.

    This deck is a pretty cool guy based on the Carbuncles. You have two openings: Haste Soldier -> Song Sorceress -> Rapier Fencer, or Wait -> two level 3 guys.

    Any suggestions for improvements?
  44. garcia1000

    garcia1000 World Champion Moderator (old) Staff Member

    Today only, beat the level 30 trainer in training arena and get 5 point cards!

    I did't get the points immediately, I hope they show up in a few days. Beat it with vordore deck with witch to return the spores.
  45. Fry

    Fry Well-Known Member

    OK, finally beat that skank using my red starter. My first couple tries involved getting lucky repeatedly on AGI rolls with Lethal Archer, which, predictably, did not go so well. The victory came when I used Archer Scout (starter) to build up a bunch of SP while Luminous was in her SP building phase, then I dropped an Earth Dragon (need to be level 5+ to not get rocked by Return or Burning Sun) I got from an early level up, and equipped it with Holy Shield (random drop) to give it +50 DF, and Magic Weapon (starter) to boost the damage output. Long, drawn out game...she was down to one card in deck when I finally got her last LP.
  46. icewolf34

    icewolf34 Well-Known Member

    The fonts in this game are literally unbearable, as in I've quit out of the tutorial three times now on their account.
  47. LoneKnight

    LoneKnight Well-Known Member

    I got her pretty easy. I could use Succubus to burn away all that mana he gathered. He literally didn't even touch me (aside from the SS card). Yeah, the AI isn't really good...
  48. Fry

    Fry Well-Known Member

    I guess there should be a "font snobs go away" sign on the website. Comic Sans MS 4 life!
  49. sage

    sage Well-Known Member

    Kayin review: Comic Sans, -3/10
  50. Fry

    Fry Well-Known Member

    Wee! Won a couple treasure battles. They even had on-color cards! Except one of them was utter trash (not STRICTLY worse than the guys that come in the starter, but deficient in several areas with no great upside).

    Interesting note: the cards offered at levelup are allegedly not random; however, the cards in some colors are higher rarity that the cards in some of the other colors. WTF?

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