Chump's Challenge III

Discussion in 'Puzzle-Strike: Bag of Chips' started by ChumpChange, Feb 9, 2012.

  1. ChumpChange

    ChumpChange Well-Known Member Staff Member

    GET READY

    [​IMG]
    Chump's Challenge is a testing tourney taking place every two weeks until further notice. The next tourney starts Saturday February 11th at 6 PM GMT.
    Doubleblind character selection at the start of every match.​
    Random starting banks after characters are chosen.​
    Best of 3, double elimination.​
    Best of 5 in semifinals and finals.​
    You may not swap in a chip that's been swapped out by the opponent.​
    Counterpick rules otherwise same as Quickmatch (switch character, switch a chip, or rerandom bank)​
    Once your match is over, post the results and characters in this thread.​
    Since the purpose of this tourney is to gather data, you must be at least Master 1 to join.
    Signups close 30 minutes before the tourney. Be ready to confirm attendance ten minutes before we start.​
    And... GO!​
     
  2. vivafringe

    vivafringe Moderator Staff Member

    I am no longer sick and will play!
     
  3. CrystalChaos

    CrystalChaos Moderator Staff Member

    I will join. I also suggest that you put these up earlier in the week if possible so maybe more people will join.
     
  4. FimPhym

    FimPhym Well-Known Member

    I'll play
     
  5. rabid_schnauzer

    rabid_schnauzer Well-Known Member

    Tentative Actual sign up here.
    If I miss check in, that means real life has intruded.
     
  6. hitogoroshi

    hitogoroshi Member

    I'm in for this. Even after my terrible performance last week... >.> But now I'm in GMT instead of Central US so this isn't the first thing I do when I wake up. xD
     
  7. Black_FM

    Black_FM Member

    I'm in!
     
  8. ChumpChange

    ChumpChange Well-Known Member Staff Member

    And here we go!

    [​IMG]
     
  9. ChumpChange

    ChumpChange Well-Known Member Staff Member

    hitogoroshi (Grave WL Vendetta W) defeats ChumpChange (Argagarg LWL)
     
  10. CrystalChaos

    CrystalChaos Moderator Staff Member

    CrystalChaos (Gloria) 2-1 Black_FM (Onimaru)
     
  11. rabid_schnauzer

    rabid_schnauzer Well-Known Member

    FimPhym (Troq WLW) 2-1 rabid_schnauzer (Gloria LWL)
     
  12. vivafringe

    vivafringe Moderator Staff Member

    viva (Midori) 2-1 CrystalChaos (Gloria)
     
  13. ChumpChange

    ChumpChange Well-Known Member Staff Member

    rabid_schnauzer (Oni WW) 2-0 ChumpChange (Oni L Quince L)
     
  14. hitogoroshi

    hitogoroshi Member

    FimPhym (Troq WLW) 2-1 hitogoroshi (DeGrey LWL)
     
  15. vivafringe

    vivafringe Moderator Staff Member

    viva(Vendetta) 3-0 FimPhym(Troq)
     
  16. hitogoroshi

    hitogoroshi Member

    BlackFM (Onimaru WLW) 2-1 hitogoroshi (Grave LWL)
     
  17. rabid_schnauzer

    rabid_schnauzer Well-Known Member

    rabid_schnauzer (Setsuki WW) 2-0 CrystalChaos (Gloria LL)
     
  18. Black_FM

    Black_FM Member

    BlackFM (Onimaru) 2-1 rabid_schnauzer (Troq)
     
  19. Black_FM

    Black_FM Member

    Black_FM (Onimaru L Setsuki WWW) 3-1 FimPhym (Troq WL Rook LL)
     
  20. vivafringe

    vivafringe Moderator Staff Member

    viva (Argagarg, Zane) beats Black_FM (Onimaru, Setsuki) 3-1
     
  21. ChumpChange

    ChumpChange Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Congratulations, vivafringe!
    [​IMG]
     
  22. FimPhym

    FimPhym Well-Known Member

    Tournament report time! I got a lot of potentially useful playtesting data this tournament. If any of you top players disagree with anything or can explain things I don't know about, please go ahead. Rather than outline the chronological order of events, I'll just post some findings.

    Troq: Troq is not overpowered. I think this is confirmed. I played a lot of Troq. The matches I won, I was able to do my thing and set up. The matches I lost, I was targetted by disruptive reds.

    Against Rabid, his OTS/RA/Mixmaster combo was too much for me but without OTS it was fine. Against Hitogoroshi, I was able to survive pilebunker + Ouch! with thinking ahead. When he took TA out and brought colour panic in, I lost convincingly. Vivafringe massacred me with reds on Vendetta. I also lost a game to Black_FM's setsuki where he did not disrupt me. I had a decent set up going, but I was perfecting my deck at a slow rate and he was ramping his deck quality up fast with custom combo, draw 3, and training day. Had I played more aggressive for a DCG and ante'd a [4] early, perhaps I'd have won. Troq seems to be in a good place.

    Rook: Rook seems pretty lame. I remember how scary it was to ever crash less than [4] at him without confirming where his stone wall is, now no one really cares. You reflect 1~3 gems, whatever, they get to live another turn and survive your rush to win the long game. People avoid it about as much as they ever avoid crashing less than [4]. The lack of deterrant makes his rush seem weaker. That said, I realise it was a necessary change in new combine world and would be totally unacceptable in the old form, so whatever. I possibly lost all my Rook matches due to misplays anyway, as people have pointed out some of my more questionable plays.
     
  23. rabid_schnauzer

    rabid_schnauzer Well-Known Member

    So, assuming I'm both counting and remembering the order of finals correctly (I might have swapped one Oni/Sets game in the finals), the wins/played per character are:

    Oni 8/14 (includes one mirror match)
    Troq 6/14
    Gloria 4/11
    Setsuki 6/8
    Arg 3/6
    Grave 2/5
    Vendetta 4/4
    Midori 2/3
    Degrey 1/3
    Rook 0/2
    Zane 1/1
     
  24. vivafringe

    vivafringe Moderator Staff Member

    Some post-tournament analysis: the more I play, the more I think PS is a game where "style" has a much smaller role than in fighting games or Yomi. I think, much more than Yomi, is seriously benefits you to learn and play a wide variety of characters. Even if you choose to play solid chars with no real bad matchups like Grave, Menelker, or Onimaru, if you lose G1 it's often throwing away EV to not switch to a character that can use the bank and/or exploit the opponent's choice.

    My advantage in this tournament seems to be that I can play a number of chars competently just because I play so damn much. So I can counterpick a ton, while everyone else has much more fixed character options. This isn't a good or bad thing, but it's a definite quality about PS that I think you have to accept if you want to get better in this format.

    I've posted a tier list after every tournament so far, so why not this time too. This time there is rough ordering within tiers (strongest first):

    S: BBB
    A+: Setsuki, Onimaru
    A: Grave
    A-: Argagarg, Jaina, Midori, Troq
    B+: Vendetta, Quince, Menelker, Valerie, Geiger
    B: Lump, Gwen, Zane, Degrey
    B-: Rook
    C: Persephone, Gloria
     
  25. ApolloAndy

    ApolloAndy Well-Known Member

    Just out of curiosity, where would you say some of the matches are in terms of "out of 10"? Yomi prides itself (rightfully so) on having no matches beyond 3.5-6.5 and only one in that range. The vast majority of them are closer to 6-4 or better. Are most PS matchups 6-4?
     
  26. vivafringe

    vivafringe Moderator Staff Member

    PS always has had more unbalanced matchups than Yomi. It's harder to tweak a certain matchup when you have 3 chips as opposed to 13 cards (and more knobs to fiddle with on a card than a chip).

    I think the character with the worst matchups is Gloria, although part of that is that she is just underpowered. Gloria - Midori, Gloria - Zane, Gloria - Setsuki are probably 3-7 or worse.
     
  27. ApolloAndy

    ApolloAndy Well-Known Member

    Which version of BBB are you putting in S tier? (I haven't played him in a long time and don't know what his current status is on the server or otherwise)
     
  28. CrystalChaos

    CrystalChaos Moderator Staff Member

    Current one, which upgrades up two chips 1 value (to discard) and gives +$1 for each one upgraded.
     
  29. rabid_schnauzer

    rabid_schnauzer Well-Known Member

    Stone Wall reducing the total amount of gems in game mean that playing it in rushdown is the same as countercrashing. It probably wouldn't hurt it if negated the incoming gem send, and reflected a [1] or maybe something crazy like "half that many, round down" back to the sender or in some other way kept more total gems around than a countercrash.


    I agree on Sets, I haven't seen enough Gloria/Zane to comment intelligently, and as much as I don't believe it should happen my Gloria actually has an overall winning record against Midori.
     
  30. Aesa

    Aesa Well-Known Member

    Maybe we should make a thread for tier lists to get a gauge of what everyone thinks of these? Mine is fairly close, main difference is that I think Jaina/Troq should be definitely higher.
     

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