Classic Mode in SSFIITHDR

Discussion in 'Street Fighter HD Remix' started by DARKKNIGHT216, Jan 17, 2010.


    DARKKNIGHT216 New Member

    I was wondering why there are very few people playing classic mode in HDR. It plays just like Super Turbo but with 1080p graphics, you even get the option to play old characters without remembering their code.

    I have both versions but playing ST on the X360 controller is harder than on a PS3/PS2/PS controller.
  2. Sirlin

    Sirlin Steward of the Realm Staff Member

    Well, probably because the other mode has dozens and dozens of improvements. You don't have to play against brainless Old Sagat. Overpowered Balrog is less overpowered. Silly Wall Dive loop is basically gone. Horrible characters like Cammy and Fei Long are a lot better, and a lot easier to control. Etc, etc.

    DARKKNIGHT216 New Member

    I asked this same question at the SRK forums, one of the answers was that GGPO handles the online better. Another said that Vanilla Super Turbo (whatever this means) looks better than HDR with old school sprites. I agree because the sprites and the HD backgrounds don't really go together, if the background was old school too that would have been really awesome.

    Don't get me wrong, I love playing SSFIITHDR but Super Turbo is more difficult which you could say requires more skill. On the flip side, HDR has transformed my Gief to almost Kuni/Pony level of play in terms of ticking into SPD (Streamroll offense :D). Probably the biggest thing is the ability to play T.Hawk and crush anyone who lets him in.

    I've seen some ST matches at EVO on Youtube, some are pretty spectacular including some of yours Sirlin. This past EVO the HDR matches didn't have that same, I don't wanna say quality....entertainment level? Maybe it has to do with the first year of the game, and that commentator SKill was notably absent as well.
  4. Sirlin

    Sirlin Steward of the Realm Staff Member

    More difficult to perform moves, therefore more skill? Ok sorry, but I'm done here. I can't even respond to that, it's extremely wrong-headed. More skill actually means removing brainless stuff from ST so there's more strategy. Sprite complaints are kind of a joke too.
  5. paradoxical

    paradoxical Member

    We were apparently watching different EVOs, cuz I was on the edge of my seat for quite a few matches. Hart vs. Daigo, Damdai vs. Wolfe, and Afro vs Choi come readily to mind.

    Agreed that most of the commentators were subpar, but that's hardly the games fault. (Actually, I thought the most annoying thing about the commentators was that they kept taking jabs at HD Remix. Seriously, if I'm watching people play a game, it's probably because I like the game. I don't want to hear the commentators trashing it.)
  6. Thelo

    Thelo Administrator Staff Member

    Seth Killian was actually commentating, but only on the stream, not for the live audience. Why that was the case remains a mystery to me.
  7. Kayin

    Kayin Well-Known Member

    Lemme just give that line of reason a bit more credit then it deserves. I think there a lot of truth to Difficulty = Skill (granted most people here do not want to test those skills which is very valid and many skills are just dumb).

    Okay? Okay. so the problem here is that the execution in ST that was changed in HDR does not add anything to the game. It is a must. Good players will always succeed and bad players will struggle harder to become good. The effective change on high level play is effectively null for good players, with the exceptions of certain moves. Stuff like the SPD is actually a BUFF that Zangief deserved.

    Now lets say Sirlin made comboing into super easier. Now theres sort of an argument to be had (if such a change did not ruin what the game was about -- but lets ignore that for now)! Combo skill is not binary to playing in ST. Those with skilled execution have a chance to return modest rewards in the game. If you removed that, now you're legitimately removing something.

    If this is good or bad is up in the air. But it is a legitimate shift in skill focus. Changing move inputs generally doesn't change any skill focus. You can either do them or you can't. Generally speaking you can't "do dragon punch motions better" then your opponent. You just do them. Any advantages you could possibly have in doing them 'well' you retrain in HDR (say, doing them fast to get them out sooner).

    All the change does is let more people enjoy the game. The only person who have any reason to complain are people who want to stomp defenseless, terrible players.
  8. Lofobal

    Lofobal Well-Known Member

    I personally hated how they kept talking about SF4 during the HDR coverage. I don't give a shit about SF4. I certainly expect that they weren't talking about SF4 during the Soul Calibur coverage or whatever.

    I play HDR because it doesn't have O.Sagat, Claw doesn't have BS walldive, and Boxer is a bit more reasonable. Sprite complaint is nonsense because you can disable the new sprites if you want. The Zangief and THawk comments seem out of place. Pony and Kuni are amazing because they can get in to do all that damage and because they use pokes super well, not because they can tick into SPD; I know lots of people who can tick into it's not that tough. THawk's close-pressure seems arguably weaker now that Typhoon has a whiff animation.

    I don't know what the OP means that previous years were more exciting. Cole vs Thelo was my favourite match from this year. That was really intense.
  9. BeastofBurden

    BeastofBurden Well-Known Member

    It's a half-ass feature because the backgrounds are still in adobe HD flash graphics. I would personally love to use both the old backgrounds & sprites (along with sounds) together over the HD stuff but what can you do.
  10. Final Atomic Buster

    Final Atomic Buster Active Member

    Let me re-phrase what I think you meant to say before you get burned on a stake. :p

    ST requires more execution. Not skill. Although execution can be considered a "skill", so can strategy. Which is what HDR was trying to balance. Less of the execution requirement, more of the strategy. But it would still take "skill" to play, because strategy is also a skill.

    Chess is a pure strategy game with very little execution requirement. Some versions even let you play without touching pieces (speak your command). So the skill in playing chess is in your strategy.

    A vanilla FPS with one weapon would be a game of almost pure execution (imagine such a simple game exists for the sake of this argument). There is some strategy involved, but with only one weapon its really the first player to land more hits that wins. The skill in playing this game is in your execution.

    I can understand the misconception that strategy isn't a "skill" but something else, as I used to think this too when I was trying to figure out why I like SF so much (it has a very good mix of strategy and execution, but I called execution skill back then).
  11. arstal

    arstal Member

    Real answer: some people don't like touching of SFII, even if it's for the better.
    (and 90% of what you did was good, and the other 10% was likely impossible to do in a way that wouldn't cause a revolt)

    Real answer #2: some people like being able to win brainlessly
  12. BeastofBurden

    BeastofBurden Well-Known Member

    Real answer #3. Some people find ST more fun.
  13. Sirlin

    Sirlin Steward of the Realm Staff Member

    Imagine this update to HD Remix. O.Sagat tiger shots return. Balrog powered up more. Wall dive loop returns. Cammy given awkward motions, unsafe cannon drill, turned into trash character. Fei Long motions made hard to do, weakened rekkas, super range cut in half.

    Real fun stuff. Thanks for bad opinions Beast of Burden.
  14. BeastofBurden

    BeastofBurden Well-Known Member

    I wonder how badly flamed I would get if I'd tried to explain why people think MVC2 is a fun game, despite having 'bad' game design and balance. But really, real answer #3 is just that people find ST more fun and that it takes "more skills" (<- now that's a bad opinion).
  15. Final Atomic Buster

    Final Atomic Buster Active Member

    BoB, are you answering the OP, or reiterating Sirlin's quote in arsal's post? Because that's two very different meanings right there:

    (sorry I hacked the quotes, I'm not trying to mis-represent)
  16. BeastofBurden

    BeastofBurden Well-Known Member

    Oh and I find it hilirous that people would thumbs down my post about the half-ass feature of letting you use only the old sprites. Ok maybe I shouldn't have used profanity and after reading it does sound dickish (my bad!), but do you guys really think the SD character sprites and HD backgrounds make sense or even look right? No one uses the feature because it does not. Ok maybe 2-3 people out thousands of players probably do for some odd reason. I think it's reasonably to say that feature wasn't well thought out or executed from an aesthetic stand point.
  17. Lofobal

    Lofobal Well-Known Member

    BoB, maybe if you provided actual reasoning instead using the nebulous "some people find ST more fun" as a counter-argument, you wouldn't get downrated or flamed.
  18. Sirlin

    Sirlin Steward of the Realm Staff Member

    How horrible for you BoB that we went out of our way to add a feature and didn't add another feature you wanted that would have taken more weeks of development. I can't believe you'd even bother to type the nonsense you're complaining about.
  19. BullDancer

    BullDancer New Member

    This post makes me feel bad yet, I still would have enjoyed having the old backgrounds along with old sprites..... oh well not going to bitch about what has already taken place I still love HD Remix, I think I've put more play time into this game than all other games I've played over the years combined.
  20. arstal

    arstal Member

    I just don't get how old ST would be more fun, outside of non-discrete reasons such as nostalgia.

    I played some old ST, and the problems HDR has, ST has to a much higher degree.

    The main reason I want to see Sirlin do another fighter someday is that I really got the sense he was constained by the limitations of the engine, especially with Honda.
  21. Kayin

    Kayin Well-Known Member

    I would actually like old backgrounds and stuff! HDR kinda looks jerky to me and the HDR graphics just sorta conflict with that. With the SD graphics, everything feels like it 'belongs' more.

    But this is coming from a guy who's favorite games are all on the NES and SNES so it's not exactly a rebuke of HDR's hi-res sprites.
  22. DredNicolson

    DredNicolson Well-Known Member

    I do notice in videos that the new backgrounds have somewhat fewer frames of animation than the old ones, leading to the 'jerkiness'. Budget limitations, perhaps, or the artists were just lazy like that. In any case, complaining about it feels like failing to see the forest for the trees (and this is coming from a guy who expends a lot of attention on aesthetic details that 98% of players wouldn't even care about).
  23. Fapko

    Fapko New Member

    I logged in especially for what I'm going to write, and that coming from a relatively constant lurker.

    So basically, you have an improvement of an ALREADY excellent game in your hands, and you are complaining about minor/negligible details such as backgrounds? Wtf, seriously? Are you playing the game because of the background graphics or because of, I don't know, the gameplay itself? Come on, you're splitting hairs and you know it.

    Backgrounds are perfectly fine by me... and even if they weren't, I couldn't give a crap about it. Geez.
  24. Kayin

    Kayin Well-Known Member

    It's not like anyone is like "I'd play this game if I could change the background!"

    If I had my CHOICE, I would play the same tweak with original ST graphics in their entirety. Original graphics just feel right to me, compared to the HD graphics. It's not like a deal breaker or anything -- or even that I think the HD graphics look bad.

    Hey in a way I agree with BoB -- SD sprites with HD everything else is like a goofy almost not-feature. On the other hand, I think it's cool that they have th SD graphics at all (though I don't use them since mixing the graphics looks weird), and I wouldn't even complain if they didn't include the option at all.
  25. jameswalton101

    jameswalton101 New Member

    If I had my choice I would wear a red headband and throw fireballs at people while shouting "hadooouken!"
  26. fullspectrum

    fullspectrum Member

    You do have a choice James. Just pretend the plasma's coming out, the rest will work just fine.
  27. cafink

    cafink New Member

    I've always been curious about why the game's "classic" graphics mode only affects the character sprites. I read that HD Remix was supposed to include the original version of Super Turbo, so it was weird to see that the gameplay and audio could be toggled to their original versions, but the graphics couldn't. The graphics are hardly the most important thing in the game, of course, and HD Remix is great as it is, but it just seemed weird and I was wondering if there was a particular reason for it, since it seems like it would be pretty straightforward to include existing background graphics. Was there a technical reason they couldn't be included? Time or budget constraints?
  28. Sirlin

    Sirlin Steward of the Realm Staff Member

    It's extremely not "pretty straightforward" actually. The original plan was new music only, new art only. Every single option to toggle took time and effort to implement. It turned out the time to support old backgrounds was a lot and was technically hard, so oh well. Be happy that there are any options at all.
  29. Beikoku Taichou

    Beikoku Taichou Well-Known Member

    For the record, only the *early* commentary seemed like they were not interested in the game.

    The later matches definitely got fair coverage and the usual amount of praise that Super Turbo got.

    In Particular Thelo's match got a lot of positive comments from S.Kill, who said that Thelo would become well known for "butt-whiffing into Oicho"....

    ... Personally I'd like to be known for something other than "butt-whiffing" but you take what you can get.
  30. Guest

    Guest Member


    Anyways, I'm just really sad to see that HDR isn't released in Japanese arcades. I think it would do really well there, since I still routinely see people play ST after all these years, and the new version would give others a lot of incentive to play again. It's great to see what footage I can get ahold of anyways.
  31. Echodork

    Echodork New Member

    I wish there were an option to disable classic mode completely when being matched for Quick Play. Whenever I get into a match and see Ryu's blue outfit, it's like... sigh, go pick Balrog and try to end the match quickly so i can get back to playing HDR.
  32. arstal

    arstal Member

    That and Akuma from HDR. So sick of people switching to Him.
  33. Effayy

    Effayy Member

    My Dee Jay game suffers a lot in Classic since I can't machine gun upper in classic. No more scary cross ups.
  34. PlanetRV

    PlanetRV Guest

    hd remix has a lot of improvments over super turbo in my opinion.i like both games though.the only change that i dont like is ryus fake fireball ( i play and fall for it everytime :( )

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