This thread is the product of a chat moment where Sirlin stated that I'm wrong. Wrong about what? not sure, but it seems I didn't state anything to refute in first place. So want the community to help me define 3 things a) Where of the statements that follow are wrong b) What a deep/Shallow game is. c) If Diablo3 is or not a shallow game. -I can Achieve whatever the current best player in the world achieved on my first try-----If you want to argue the construction of the statement, that is fair play, whoever, do not argue about if this is true or not for now, so far in my discussions in the chat nobody call me wrong because this wasn't true, so im not interested for now if this statement is true or not. So for now , for the purpose of the following statements let's assume it's true (however it's fair play to question if it's a statements that makes sense in first place). -Since I can achieve on my first try, whatever the best player in the world achieved, then Diablo 3 is a shallow game. I will tell here my definition of shallow game, but in this thread is fair play to argue or discuss what is a shallow/deep game, since its important. however I think my statement holds true for most of the definitions of deep/shallow game can come with. But in my definition a game is more deep, the harder is for a player to achieve the most expected value possible, at achieving the goal of the game. Go.