Diablo 3

Discussion in 'Now Playing' started by CWheezy, Apr 21, 2012.

  1. CWheezy

    CWheezy Well-Known Member

    Open beta weekend!

    Wow this game is awful and boring, just like torchlight was!

    I am pretty disappointed in blizzard
    link6616 likes this.
  2. pkt-zer0

    pkt-zer0 Well-Known Member

    Dunno, seemed like a pretty cool game to me. Nicely atmospheric, has interesting skills, and a polished UI. Bit of a bummer that the challenge levels don't rise all that high in the beta, but it's the tutorial section of the game, so that's not really surprising.
  3. Logo

    Logo Well-Known Member

    It's Diablo, depending on your feelings about the series this one isn't going to change it. Then add on that it's pretty easy (to start) and it does feel a bit boring. There is some enjoyment of it though, the unit responsiveness and abilities are great and the new skill/rune progression system is fun because you can try out different things.

    If you play with 4 people, or ideally 4 people with 3 of them afk, it's more enjoyable since things can actually hurt you.
  4. tataki

    tataki Well-Known Member

    They had 12 years to improve the formula and this is what we get? More of the same just more streamlined.
  5. Claytus

    Claytus Well-Known Member

    A) People asked them for more of the same. So that seems like a weird complaint, they didn't release it for 12 years because of:
    B) The fact that every MMO ever made appears to just be a progression of the diablo formula. So... they did improve the formula, when they released WoW.

    Man, I loved the earlier Diablos, but I can't figure out why I'm supposed to play this one instead of just going dungeon-crawling in <insert MMO of choice>. At least TorchlightII is trying to capture people's attentions by releasing a bunch of mod tools and fostering a community that way. Diablo is going to have to do something really amazing to make their marketplace-based restrictions seem worthwhile.
  6. bbobjs

    bbobjs Well-Known Member

    Always on = Never going to play

    Even if it's the best game ever (I've never payed for an MMO either BtW)
  7. Logo

    Logo Well-Known Member

    All valid complaints really. Sadly since playing beta a while ago my interest has waned in favor of Guild Wars 2 due to the PvP, but I still know way more people (and a large # of more casual gamers) excited for Diablo 3 than any other game I've seen released in a while. D3 seems likely to capture the audience of people who want the MMO experience without the time investment (both in total # of hours and the sense of smallest time needed to complete a task).
  8. PoisonDagger

    PoisonDagger Active Member

    I'm loving this game. The large amount of streamlining they did has removed the annoyance factor that I've always had to put up with in D2.

    The combat system is so much more fun too. In D2 I hated starting new characters because until you get good mana leech, managing your mana was a huge pain in the ass, then when you get enough mana leech, mana becomes irrelevant. In D3 your mana level is managed by the abilities you use, so for example some classes refill their mana with certain skills, and spend it with others. It affects the way you fight while letting you regularly use all your equipped skills, which makes combat pretty engaging.

    BTW, Diablo has never been comparable to an MMO. Diablo is a hack-n-slash, which is a fast-paced combat genre, whereas MMOs are more standard RPGs, which are slower paced and more methodical. I don't play MMOs because I just don't find them fun, not because they're too much of a timesink.
    link6616 and specs like this.
  9. BeastofBurden

    BeastofBurden Well-Known Member

    I've been in beta for awhile. Beta was a massive disappointment until I realized it was beta testing with one super easy difficulty, and a really short segment of act one. I ended up liking in what they were trying to do with Diablo 3, which gives me hope that retail will be good (also PvP was good at Blizzcon). I imagine once you start playing the harder difficulties and start employing strategies to take out packs of monsters it will be a lot more fun. The overall game flow of combat, item management, how often you go back to town, and what you do in town is a huge improvement among other things.

    Combat is fast paced, and the controls are smoother than most hack and slashes I have played. The visceral feeling and sound effects is a lot better than other hack and slashes as well. Boss fights are better designed judging from the Skeleton King encounter. Unlike the older Diablos, you can no longer spam potions, but instead must rely on health orbs dropped by monsters to heal too. That means you will have to correctly engage packs of monsters if you want to keep your momentum going forward in clearing a dungeon. If you're fighting against weak filler monsters while moving forward, you would still want to carefully string a long combo kill streak to get rewarded with extra XP from the new combo system (kinda like a console action game) instead of mindlessly running through. At least that what I think they are trying to achieve. So it is a bit more stimulating than the average mind-numbing boring hack and slash crap. Combat would be even better if Blizzard made some skills that had to be executed with mouse dragging like Lineage 3.

    Item management is a vast improvement. Inventory space is bigger and the decision making for picking up items for selling and crafting is decently thought out. The bigger inventory space and revised item sizes means less time managing your inventory, and less trips back to town to dump items. That also means staying more in the wild and combat. I think it's at a level that once you have to go back to town to dump items, it is well deserved and a nice break from the hectic action.

    Once back in town, there are more things to do in town aside from bartering, such as crafting. So it's possible to be rewarded in town with powerful crafting items or skill leveling which feels almost as good as a good item drop or level up in in the wild outside of town. I think all of the above combined is a nicely tuned game experience.
    zem, Ehrgeix, specs and 3 others like this.
  10. tataki

    tataki Well-Known Member

    Have we played the same game? A bonus for killing let's say 25 in a row is about +65XP, but each puny skeleton in the last dungeon gives at least 150XP. The bonuses are negligible.

    Nah, it's just crafting, and it's made so that you get extremely slow progress out of it. (Tons of money to upgrade, 1 powder off of every salvaged item)

    Maybe the genre is just not for me but I just don't see how the game, the way it is now, is ever going to demand smart decision making and won't always fall into the same old tactics of hit and run, potion spam and fighting a crowd 1 by 1 through a narrow opening. Not to offer grinding as a solution to whatever challenge you may face.
  11. Waterd103

    Waterd103 Well-Known Member

    Bastion showed imo how Diablo should be.
  12. infernovia

    infernovia Well-Known Member

    Are you talking about having movement keys and the controls there Watered?
  13. link6616

    link6616 Well-Known Member

    No, he's talking about it being good (well that's what I take away from it)
    specs likes this.
  14. Waterd103

    Waterd103 Well-Known Member

    Im talking about the combat being more engaging than just right click. Yes I think movement keys is a big help, having dash and the like helps too.
  15. link6616

    link6616 Well-Known Member

    Perhaps the console versions will feel better for you.
  16. pkt-zer0

    pkt-zer0 Well-Known Member

    What. The thing that bothered me about Bastion is that while you had a whole bunch of weapons and skills, none of it really mattered, because you could just spam attack and potions through EVERYTHING (even with 2-3 idols on).
  17. Plum

    Plum Well-Known Member

    I loved Bastion for the wonderful story telling mechanics and awesome music more than the actual gameplay but with something like D3 you expect the gameplay to be the main driving force. I only played over the stress weekend so I've only seen a tiny amount of the game but it felt...ok. Nice to dip into when I feel like something light maybe but not a game that will devour my free time like Titan Quest did.

    (for the record, I never played the original or D2 so I don't have any expectations of the series)
  18. Waterd103

    Waterd103 Well-Known Member

    You are just pointing out the execution of the design being bad that the design concept itself.

    Why you would expect in D3 the gameplay being the driving force when it wasn't at all in the first two games? You say you didn't play d1 and d2 ....but YOU EXPECT....im confused.
  19. specs

    specs Well-Known Member


    That didn't work with 10 idols on.

    And Bastion is a great game mechanically too. Just about its only real misstep is the mortar is ST Akuma compared to the other weapons.
  20. Claytus

    Claytus Well-Known Member

    Seriously, wth? You're complaining that you played the game on easy mode, and it was awful that the game was easy? Try 7-8 idols, and let me know how far that strategy takes you...
    specs likes this.
  21. pkt-zer0

    pkt-zer0 Well-Known Member

    ...I thought you were doing the same? Because other than lack of direct movement (which will hopefully get patched in), the design space of Diablo isn't terribly limiting: you get 6 skills, each of which could do basically anything.
    The idols seemed to be the lazy kind of difficulty setting (generic buffs for all enemies, instead of smarter AI or harder enemy waves), which usually leads to the stupid kind of difficult (more tedious, less interesting). Maybe Bastion doesn't work that way, but given my lack of spare time atm, I'll have to take your word for that.
  22. infernovia

    infernovia Well-Known Member

    Btw link, when I am asking for a specific reason as to why a game is being praised, a response that says "No, he is saying the game is good" is a very pointless response.
  23. Claytus

    Claytus Well-Known Member

    Yeah, that's true to an extent. Some of them are interesting, though, like one makes monsters explode on death which changes dynamics of positioning when fighting groups. One gives them the ability to guard your attacks, which can be bad if you mistime one of the slow charge weapons. I think enough of them really does have a significant impact on the way combat plays out, it's not just enemies taking longer to kill. There was definitely a point where I felt the game was "fun hard", and beyond that I still had idols to add but any more just turned everything slow and grindy to the point I felt I needed to go grind weapon upgrades or something. Overall, I think the system works well, though... should probably unlock more idols earlier, since the first half of the game is boring, but there really is a good spot for players who search for it.

    To be honest, I only hit reply before to respond to PoisonDagger's MMO comment. Then after I wrote the snide comment to you, I realized there wasn't all that much to say. I think the games are more closely related than he gave them credit for, but it's kind of an empty statement.

    They really need to make a game that's just the dungeon-running portions of an MMO chained together for co-op play without the incredibly boring overworld sections. Or maybe Diablo is an attempt at making that game? I dunno...
  24. Ehrgeix

    Ehrgeix Well-Known Member

    I think this is true, but only insofar as beta was awful and boring = normal mode will be awful and boring. I think the "real game" starts later and this is an awful leveling experience/intro to the game kind of thing. It looked like it'd have some real potential when you have six skills and enemies can deal damage to you. Not so much when you have two skills and holding left click is enough to beat the beta (I know casual gamers and stuff... but really - "welcome to beta! Enjoy holding left click for an hour while everything melts." seems like not the most interesting introduction to a game.)

    How are we going to play games together, bbobjs. =(

    -

    What classes are people planning to play? I kind of want to play Monk, but half of me thinks that I should go Wizard in that I'm pretty sure being ranged will make getting into early inferno difficulty way easier/interesting exploits and early good farming spots will require range/etcetc.
  25. Plum

    Plum Well-Known Member

    You've quoted someone else but it looks as though you were addressing my point? You're entirely right - I have expectations of the game having not played the precursors. I've played (and enjoyed) other entries in the ARPG genre that have claimed the original Diablos as an inspiration and that gave me the impression that I would enjoy the Diablo series. I found D3 to be merely ok (not bad, but certainly not what I was expecting from the hype). If the earlier games were much the same then my expectations of the series are wrong and I've fallen for the hype, which is a shame.
  26. Logo

    Logo Well-Known Member

    Wha? The idols completely changed how you had to tackle monsters. Some were generic difficulty, but then you had enemy hp regen, bomb on death, faster attack rate (as in an AI improvement so they attack more often), damage on contact, and foes becoming ethereal occasionally.
    Honestly, while I can't fault WaterD for saying the execution may be lacking for Bastion, I think the idols in concept is one of the best difficulty scaling I've seen in a game both in the overall system and several of the idols themselves.

    -----

    In Terms of how this relates to D3, it may not be entirely fair, but nowadays I'm not sure that I'm up for having to push throw the lower difficulties. Even in Bastion where the idols unlock over time you still only had a few hours before you got to ramp up the difficulty to at least a reasonable level (though you need NG+ for a real challenge). I'm concerned about how I'll feel after slogging through the D3 campaign, which seems much longer, on normal.
    ----

    As for classes, either DH or WD. DH, WD, and Monk were the classes that felt good to me during beta (all classes are good, I mean stylistically). I really like the pace of the DH (lots of movement and DPS), but it falls a little flat on variety (do you want to deal damage, or deal damage?). I like that the WD has very unique feeling spells even in the space of dealing damage along with a lot of build combos that seem like they'd be interesting to try out.
    specs likes this.
  27. Claytus

    Claytus Well-Known Member

    The early diablo games aren't bad... they're just very, very dated. It's like a huge cliche these days to go on about how constant loot grinding and gear drops is a skinner box system that's draining the soul out of the games industry.

    But Diablo was basically the first game to ever do that... and at the time, it was totally awesome! It was a crazy, novel thing to play a game where rewards and gameplay altering gear could appear multiple times in the course of a few hours if you were lucky.

    If you've played Torchlight or Titan Quest or Dungeon Siege or w/e else... they're basically the exact same game as D2, except that in general D2 was longer, had better art, had more items/spells, and had better monsters. (Well... maybe not necessarily longer, Titan Quest and Dungeon Siege are pretty huge...)
    specs likes this.
  28. link6616

    link6616 Well-Known Member

    Well, the implication was more that Diablo wouldn't be but yes, it was a silly little one line joke. I'm sorry about that, I will work on my tone of text in future.
  29. Ehrgeix

    Ehrgeix Well-Known Member

    Stay up for midnight launch - everything is broken.

    Wake up at 6am (euro) to play 2h before work - everything is still broken.

    qq
  30. pkt-zer0

    pkt-zer0 Well-Known Member

    Would be funny if people failing to log in on their own servers would swarm to the rest and bring down those as well. Wait, could that also be an exploit to get around the midnight activation?
  31. Logo

    Logo Well-Known Member

    I was able to get on and create my guy, but it took a few tries. Once I was in game I had no problem though.
  32. Fenrir

    Fenrir Well-Known Member

    I could not possibly be more angry at blizzard about this game. What little I have played is fantastic which is what makes the utterly pointless destruction of the game by their DRM so galling. It's like watching a book burning. Something beautiful destroyed for totally senseless reasons.
  33. Sirlin

    Sirlin Steward of the Realm Staff Member

    Being always connected means there is no need for confusing and annoying separate characters for the battle.net versions and "you can cheat a lot" versions. Also means not giving everyone the server, which is a good idea. Helps make sure there's an actual economy instead of a broken hacked thing with dupes or whatever. Basically it seems like a good move on their part, but you are crying because of launch day troubles. Maybe get over it.
    specs likes this.
  34. Logo

    Logo Well-Known Member

    Plus Blizzard is starting to have a formidable amount of value with their real ID system since I can talk to all my friends on WoW, SC2, and now Diablo 3 . When I go and launch the game later I'll already have a whole list of friends waiting for me.
  35. pkt-zer0

    pkt-zer0 Well-Known Member

    Yeah, it sucks that you can no longer play the game offline, but turns out the online part of D2 was pretty popular, so they chose to make that better. Fair enough.

    Anyway, servers are currently raped, accidentally logged onto the US ones and played a bit. People criticize the game for not being dark enough, but I think the artwork is absolutely INCREDIBLE. It's like a dark fantasy version of Braid.

    On another unrelated note, there's an achievement for killing some guy called Zoltun Kulle: "Kulle Story, Bro"
    specs likes this.
  36. Leartes

    Leartes Well-Known Member

    I totally understand their reasoning behind it, but didn't they know how many people preordered it ? It is no surprise to them and still the game had problems in the middle of the night....

    If they don't want to get the server-capacity for logins on launch-day, maybe stretch the launch over several days ... I'd be totally pissed if I couldn't play right now - luckily I didn't buy it yet :D
  37. Logo

    Logo Well-Known Member

    @Art I think the art is good quality, but thematically a few textures or lighting choices still seem a little off to me (especially early act 1 ground textures). A lot of areas look great once they're in motion though.

    I tried logging in at like 7:30 EST before I had to head out and even then the login servers were hammered.

    That would just replace, "hard to play, need to keep at it and get lucky" to "impossible to play and/or 1 server is slammed instead of several".

    I don't quite get Blizzard game here though. I suppose at some level it's inevitable to have load like this on day 1, but on the other hand I can't really see that load going anywhere anytime soon so what's going to happen for the next week or so when the game is constantly at a load comparable to what it is now.
  38. Claytus

    Claytus Well-Known Member

    No, they specified a time zone when they declared "midnight launch".

    Maybe if it works... apparently some dude in southeast asia registered my e-mail for a RealID 6 months ago, and apparently the account is still on record even though he couldn't do e-mail verification. And I can't do recovery since I don't know what name this guy typed in.

    Hurray for therefore having to create a new fake address/name completely unlinked from my actual identity in order to play their dumb game >.>


    But anyway, since I will be playing... anyone else considering playing hardcore mode instead of regular?
  39. pkt-zer0

    pkt-zer0 Well-Known Member

    Server down for maintenance at 4AM - forums erupt in flames. WHEEEE!

    The D3 metagame is just as fun as the game proper.
  40. Logo

    Logo Well-Known Member

    I didn't have any problem after their patch today (well I also didn't try before that) so that was nice.

    Honestly I'm enjoying everyone being online given how I want to enjoy D3. I pretty easily ended up into a group of 4 real life friends ad hoc style where otherwise we would have had to coordinate before hand or relied on those people choosing to play online even when just 'messing around', plus I had a 2nd group of real life friends doing the same. It's nice that people can see "oh that person is playing and is behind me, I can drop in if I want without any trouble on his part"

    SP would be nice still don't get me wrong... but I do enjoy that it's kinda encouraging people to get together so they're available for easy grouping.
  41. Cauldrath

    Cauldrath Member

    Not a big fan of the details of the would-you-like-to-advance-to-this-part system. Had one friend click no because he thought we were still in the middle of a fight, so 2 of us clicked no when it said he had clicked no, but the other clicked yes. So the rest of us weren't allowed through the door anymore while the one guy had to solo the boss set to 4-player difficulty. I can understand trying to sync up everyone going into a cinematic section, but there was no point in locking the rest of us out.
  42. BeastofBurden

    BeastofBurden Well-Known Member

    I miss chat lobbies with character avatars. D3 has that ghost town feeling just like inSC2 battle.net. Channels are not on as default and the chat window size is so tiny. It's a trend that I hate with this new battle.net 0.2 even though I have a good amount of friends online at any given time. They fucked up the default social atmosphere of both sequels, but I guess spam bots aren't worth it huh?
  43. Fenrir

    Fenrir Well-Known Member

    Has anyone tried the auction house much yet? When my character hit level 1o i went on there and literally filled out EVERY slot with rare items for about 800 gold each. My character sheet dps quadrupled. It was pretty awesome. Of course I just ruined the game for the next five levels because I one shot everything I see. But that's pretty awesome too.

    I expect the pricing will calm down once 1: the real money auction house opens and 2: people start to figure out how much rare items are worth.
  44. Plum

    Plum Well-Known Member

    I'm ok with the idea of having an online framework surrounding single player games as Steam has been doing it for a while - having friends able to contact me when I'm playing The Witcher or join my games automatically is great.

    As people have noted above though, it boils down to 'do the benefits of an online framework outweigh the costs' and that is entirely personal. For myself, I gain nothing from a permanent server connection as I'm not interested in the auction house and I trust my friends, nor do I use any other Battle.net services, but I still have to suffer from server drops and laggy play. I'm probably not the target market though :)
  45. Aesa

    Aesa Well-Known Member

    Your 1 friend screwed up then. If that happens, you get a second confirmation window saying something like "3 people voted no, are you sure you want to proceed with just 1/4 party members?"
    Ehrgeix and specs like this.
  46. Cauldrath

    Cauldrath Member

    Yes, he did screw up. But is it good design that he could screw up in that way with that result?
  47. Claytus

    Claytus Well-Known Member

    Yes, actually... it did exactly what it told you it would do. The alternative is doing random co-op games where one dude decides to wander off away from the group, and it's suddenly impossible for you to actually fight the boss because he keeps hitting no.

    I have to say that after even only getting to play for a few hours, I feel like this statement is actually exactly what they're trying to do. People claiming that this game is "single-player", just don't get it, and are doing it wrong. The game is soooooo boring solo, you just right-click repeatedly and for multiple hours at the beginning you can one-shot every enemy so it's not even fun right-clicking.

    But the co-op is incredibly fun and fast-paced (literally, like 1hour to hit level 10 in co-op, vs. 2 hours to hit level 10 solo according to the in-game clock). Skills are way more interesting when the goal is to help the team, instead of just going through the same old mob-kiting we learned 10 years ago. There's an actual payoff between enfeebling enemies so someone else can kill them vs. going pure dps to kill them yourself. And being able to switch according to who's in your group is pretty integral to the experience. Even the "social" elements are great, I haven't even joined a game with anyone on my friends list yet, and it's still just cool to be able to see people's progression.

    Not to say I'm entirely positive on the game... I'm really frustrated that it took me multiple hours of grinding to even unlock hardcore mode, but I guess I can understand why they want dumb people to not give up after meeting one champion enemy and getting decked.

    Achievement system also looks like it has some actually fun challenges hidden inside... like the ones about killing bosses in particular ways.
  48. Cauldrath

    Cauldrath Member

    No, it didn't do what it told me it would do. It never said that I would be locked out of the room if I clicked no, it basically just said, hey your friend said he wasn't ready yet, are you sure you want to go in? So I clicked no. Then it locked me out of the room when the other guy went in. The more-reasonable alternatives are to let the other party members into the room even if one person went in by himself initially or have an additional prompt saying that a party member has insisted on going in and if you choose to opt out again you will be locked out until it is completed. The fact that a third prompt will actually improve the interface kind of indicates that it's broken.
  49. Aesa

    Aesa Well-Known Member

    Jesus christ man there's already an extra confirmation window. People like you are the reason games have "ARE YOU SURE YOU WANT TO DO THIS THING YOU JUST SAID YOU WANTED?? ARE YOU SURE??? OK LAST CHANCE TO SAY NO!"

    there's a good reason you can't zerg bosses anymore like in d2
    Ehrgeix likes this.
  50. icewolf34

    icewolf34 Well-Known Member

    Just wanted to throw this out for people who didn't know: You can bind the 'Move' command to a keyboard key. It's not as good as wasd movement, but basically that key just moves you towards wherever your mouse is pointing. I have Move bound to S and D, hoping it will decrease the damage this game does to my wrists (and it's definitely going to do damage, hah).
    Ehrgeix and pkt-zer0 like this.

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