DoTA and DoTA 2

Discussion in 'Now Playing' started by Eji1700, Aug 16, 2011.

  1. Polari

    Polari Well-Known Member

    I'm with Claytus on CM. If you go aura it will be great for roughly the latter half of the laning phase. Before that the low level skills generally aren't that useful and afterwards people start getting mana boots and the aura becomes superfluous. It's good but it's like the #3 reason to pick her. If you do go for an aura build at least start getting it on 3 instead of having only one skill for the first three levels. The ult is somewhat awkward too. It has the potential to be devastating but you'll rarely get to use it for full effect. I prefer 4/4/0/0 or 4/4/1/0 early (usually the latter with aura on 3), later ult if I feel like I'll be able to use it, a little more aura, and stats.

    I mean have you seen the numbers on her level 4 skills? 250 damage and a FIVE-second slow in 400 aoe from a 700 cast range? Followed by a 3-second immobilize? Yes please. Not only is it much more satisfying to play, being a powerhouse in fights tends to be more useful for the team than being a mana battery with some weak disables.
     
  2. Logo

    Logo Well-Known Member

    Right, but aura at level 2 gives you a little more presence in lane if you're babysitting because you can throw out a nova or two to keep the opponents honest that otherwise would drain your mana, and really helps a lot of heroes like clockwerk, windrunner, batrider, clinkz, or krob. When exactly to get aura is going to depend a lot on your team, but I think both level 2 and 3 have their uses, as does skipping it entirely in some cases. Going for it at 2 & 3 is really powerful if your team has some of the previously mentioned heroes that can take advantage of it to get kills or farm.

    Plus in a baby sitting situation you can easily end up in the situation where you can't really get a kill or roam to gank anyways at which point the 1 extra level of nova isn't going to make a difference, but aura can. It's not like you're never maxing out nova/fb. It's just 1-2 levels behind and really 1-2 levels of frostbite isn't going to make or break most ganks.

    Level 2 aura for someone like Clinkz means he can use a searing arrow for an almost 100% last hit every 8 seconds and still have the same level of mana he would if there was no aura.

    Unfortunately, her ult is a little weaker than the HoN equivelent where it was always worth it at level 6 (in HoN shards have a bigger AoE for less damage to make it more consistent).

    Anyways it's all dependent on team comps. CM has one of the most flexible build outs in the entire game imo.
     
  3. Bodknocks

    Bodknocks Active Member

    Logo is dead right. CM has a super flexible build.

    My personal build is probably something like: Don't take aura until level 3, but max it first. Don't get ult at six, wait until at least level 10.
     
  4. Eji1700

    Eji1700 Well-Known Member

    As many of you probably already know we've had Ogre magi hit. BKB is the single best counter to this guy so if you're dying to multicast go ahead and pick it, or euls, up.

    There's been some more UI changes and various things gleamed from code in the game, but at this point it seems pointless to keep analyzing it. It looks scary for the competitive scene in some ways, but they keep saying they won't do anything that screws with balance so it looks like i'll just wait and see.

    All that said it looks like chaos knight is next to come, and after that (in no particular order) gyro, luna, templar, disruptor, undying, PA, and NA all have some work done on them.
     
  5. Eji1700

    Eji1700 Well-Known Member

    http://www.cyborgmatt.com/2012/05/dota-2-30th-may-item-schema-update/
    bumpity.

    Some things of note-
    “Use this item to increase your rate of earning Battle Points for 6 days by 50%. Additionally, everyone else in games you play receive 10% extra Battle Points (this bonus stacks).”

    “When used, this Action Item gives a random item drop to a random person on the server (not you). You can use this item by equipping it as an action item and then activating it during a match.”

    “When used, this Action Item gives a random item drop to everyone on the server (except you). You can use this item by equipping it as an action item and then activating it during a match.”

    It looks like the treasure caches are going to be series based similar to TF2 except they will be more tailored towards a specific hero, with the actual chest being designed in an art style similar to that of it’s heroes.



    I think this is going to be VERY interesting to watch.
     
  6. Logo

    Logo Well-Known Member

    While I don't necessarily like this worrying about whether or not drops will affect gameplay... the items look amazing. They fit the game world way more than skins of any other game while retaining the hero's identity very very well. Windrunner looks very awesome and very different with her hood, but it's unquestionably still windrunner. Same with Jugg's mask, axe's axe, and all the other items.
     
  7. Polari

    Polari Well-Known Member

    That's what I thought too, various items on the same heroes looks much less disruptive than, for example, HoN's completely different avatars. In the end we're still at the mercy of Valve not releasing something ridiculous though, it's definitely possible to fuck up even with items only. I quickly skimmed through the images, but on a quick glance at the comments I saw someone mention the Ursa item set and... yeah.
     
  8. Logo

    Logo Well-Known Member

    Though I have to admit I thought HoN's male -> female and female -> male avatars were really good because they got to make a unique avatar & voice over without changing the flavor of the model (Mandromeda & Andromeda were particularly well done).

    Yeah the Ursa set is a little silly.
     
  9. Eji1700

    Eji1700 Well-Known Member

    There supposedly are lines in the code right now that suggest it may be possible to turn cosmetic items completely off for your computer.
     
  10. Polari

    Polari Well-Known Member

    If all HoN avatars were as easily recognizable as good as female pyro and glacius I wouldn't have a problem with them, but with the amount of stuff produced there are bound to be some stinkers. Later on I'd see games where someone has a hero icon that doesn't even look like anything and then another one that could feasibly be one of maybe four heroes. That was my point earlier, when you only add some additional stuff on top of the same model the worst possible case is much less bad than when the alt can be anything.

    But then again, if HoN had a way to toggle all alternate graphics off it wouldn't matter one bit how disruptive anything was. If Dota 2 will really have that option, they can let people play with stick figures for all I care.
     
    Logo likes this.
  11. galefrost

    galefrost Member

    http://www.dota2.com/spoilsofwar/
    The new update adds in the microtransaction system. The site also confirms that there are no hero unlocks and that all upgrades are cosmetic. As far as I understand, drops seemed to be tied entirely to gaining Battle Levels, which would be a departure from the TF2 drop system.

    Also, amusingly, there is a $40 bundle in the store that includes a beta key (as well as Sven and Axe item sets and a courier).
     
  12. Eji1700

    Eji1700 Well-Known Member

    there are random drops after matches occasionally.
     
  13. Bodknocks

    Bodknocks Active Member

    I think this is great news. A new player can download Dota2 for free (once it's out of beta) and start playing right away, and have all non-cosmetic content available to them without spending a dime. And Valve will still make millions off the game as TF2 has shown.

    I could not be more pleased with the situation.
     
  14. Eji1700

    Eji1700 Well-Known Member

  15. Bob199

    Bob199 Well-Known Member

    Anybody know of any good leagues to play in? Been trying ever since DL ended and can't find one with anywhere near as good. Also if anybody's looking for a support/jungler, lmk.
     
  16. Ehrgeix

    Ehrgeix Well-Known Member

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  17. Eji1700

    Eji1700 Well-Known Member

    He's really really bad in competitive and easy to counter but tends to stomp the hell out of pubs. He was ok, but super linear for a long time, then weird, then broken, then what he is now.

    Cons-
    TERRIBLE laning phase for himself. Melee, lost a lot of HP in recent nerf, low armor.
    Leech seed is usually not that good and easy to work around.
    Global aura is not nearly as strong as you'd think. Not global during night is huge since the first night is arguably when it would be most useful. The building heal is pretty gimmicky as well since it requires him to be so close and most pushes these days are one shot things. Not gradual at all.
    2 second fade on invis was a huge nerf.
    Overgrowth aoe is terrible for such a weak disable. Many ways to get out/avoid it once you know how it works. It levels ATROCIOUSLY.
    Just recently got his base stats kicked in.

    So with all that in mind in a comp or decently intelligent game you basically have your support carry wards/dust and give the tank a gem eventually and it turns into a 5v4 for most of the game. There might be some build that'll make him more viable but honestly right now he's on the low end of a major nerf storm that's been one of the biggest overkill streaks i've seen from ice in a long time. Stats, invis, and ult all getting hit at once was just so huge. Tide is much better.

    All that said you can still wreck pubs with him. You can basically invis your entire team and win most your teamfights because of it, and players not knowing how to handle his ultimate helps a lot.
     
  18. Polari

    Polari Well-Known Member

    One of the great things about Dota's balance is that almost everything has outrageously powerful best-case scenarios instead of just lame generic nukes with different numbers or something. Treant has a lot of stuff going on and he'd be decent for sure, but you also have to think about how he fits into the lineup and what you could be have instead. That's when he suddenly doesn't look very appealing anymore.

    All his skills are very nice, but what does he really DO? Invis is easily countered when it would be crucial. Aura is nice on lane but does nothing to threaten and very little to survive kill attempts. You have two "nice" skills, an underwhelming single target nuke/slow, and a big teamfight ult that gets countered by everything. Oh and he's melee and has weak laning presence. So you've got a utility hero that kind of just is there and occasionally does things. Admittedly it's not too hard to spin any hero as underpowered or overpowered, but my point is that he's not powerful enough to build a lineup around him, and apart from overgrowth being a big teamfight skill he doesn't fill any specific need. And even as an initiator he compares unfavourably to heroes like Tidehunter, Enigma, Sand King or Earthshaker.
     
  19. vivafringe

    vivafringe Moderator Staff Member

    The biggest issue with Treant is that people can cast spells while in his ult. Also they can BKB out of it whenever they want. Or buy a linkens, lol. One of the most annoying interactions in the game is when you ult Faceless Void and he blinks away. So basically his ult blows even though it looks super strong.

    Leech Seed would actually be really strong if it didn't have the world's longest cast time and world's shortest cast range.

    I disagree that Treant is a terrible laner. He last hits like a truck and has good natural hp/armor/regen.
     
  20. Leartes

    Leartes Well-Known Member

    Tree is not really bad but not too very strong either. You can either go for radience and tank up (I don't like this style, but it works). Or you go for refresher orb. Imo this build is really strong as you can use the orb to counter all the items they get to evade your ultimate. They BKB/Manta out of it? Wait a second or two and pop it again. The majority of the team will be caught for two durations (which is crazy long) and the main carry will most likely be caught for a normal duration.
    On the other hand tide is better in most occasions. His ulti is just plain better and he can get refresher as well if he wants to (usually tide will not go refresher giving him more space/money for other items).

    What do you think of rubik? I never got into the more recent (wc3:dota) heroes - the last one I picked up and played a lot was puck and you can't call him new in wc3:dota.
     
  21. Ehrgeix

    Ehrgeix Well-Known Member

    Ah, did not realize people could cast spells while in his ult. That makes sense. I still want to try him though.
     
  22. vivafringe

    vivafringe Moderator Staff Member

    Rubik was the last new hero I played with before I got into the Dota2 beta. Not sure how he is now, but he was absurd when I left and clearly tier S. Two things that made him broken were:

    1. Chain lightning nuke is ridiculous. The mana cost is crazy low, damage is great and scales well, and -damage is raaaaaaage in laning phase. Solo mid, Rubik wins pretty much all the time when he isn't ganked. He can also be played as a support but you really want levels on him, because:

    2. Oh god, that ultimate. One thing worth mentioning is that his cast point on ALL stolen spells is 0. So things that are balanced by a long cast point (for instance, ES's fissure, Lina stun) actually come out instantly. ffffffffff

    No idea where he is now, although even if he's been nerfed he should still be super strong. Is he in -cm yet?
     
  23. Leartes

    Leartes Well-Known Member

    No he is added to the test client now. I guess he will come to normal matchmaking in 1-2 days and to -cm 1-2 weeks later.
     
  24. vivafringe

    vivafringe Moderator Staff Member

    Looks like Rubick's changes since I played him were:

    - Fade Bolt manacost increased from 90/95/100/105 to 150
    - Fade Bolt cd rescaled from 10 to 16/14/12/10
    - Telekinesis manacost decreased from 160 to 120

    Seems like they fixed his ridiculous laning and kept the ultimate (which, without obscene laning, is probably OK. I mean ultimates are supposed to be crazy, heh).
     
  25. Eji1700

    Eji1700 Well-Known Member

    The other important rubrik change-
    He can steal ALL active spells now. ALL OF THEM.
    Due to WC3 engine limitations certain spells could not be stolen because of overlapping hotkeys or just coding issues. Rubrik may now steal morph, morph his HP to str, then steal wave form, and KEEP THE STAT CHANGES(for now...that might be changed). Firefly works(with its own niffty animation) as do several other change form spells. Important here is lycan's ult, which gives him the max MS, the crit, and KEEPS HIM RANGED.

    Not sure how much of this is feature and how much is still being tweaked(guessing he's not supposed to be ranged as lycan ult) but dear god is this one hell of a buff.
     
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  26. Turbo164

    Turbo164 Well-Known Member

    ...can he steal Invoke? :p
     
  27. Eji1700

    Eji1700 Well-Known Member

    Think so.
     
  28. galefrost

    galefrost Member

    From the second test patch update:

     
  29. Eji1700

    Eji1700 Well-Known Member

    That wouldn't be invoke though. Not sure if invoker can say, deafening blast, then hit QQQR before spell steal. It might give deafening blast, it might give invoke.
     
  30. Logo

    Logo Well-Known Member

    It would give deafening blast, the quote specifically calls out invoke as unstealable.
     
  31. Eji1700

    Eji1700 Well-Known Member

    Ugh i need to pay more attention.

    Anyways i've finally gotten my brother interested again and have been playing with him. If anyone wants to do some organized stuff let me know and i'll shoot out invites when i'm on. A note though that we aren't too serious, and will usually be trying new things(heroes, builds, whatever) than playing to our best. In short we aren't trying to be competitive, just have fun and enjoy teamwork combos and what not.

    Bonus for rubrik players-
    For some rather convoluted reasons, certain spells are much MUCH better when rubrik gets them.

    The easiest example is fissure. Anyone who's played ES knows theres almost a half a second cast animation before he actually gets the fissure off. On Rubrik he uses his personal cast time of 0.1 seconds.

    Some spells(not all) which take advantage of this-
    Lina's Light strike array.
    Leshracs Split earth.
    Snipers Assassinate.
    Furions TELEPORT.

    Note that on the last two there's a chance that's a screw up on code part and that'll be removed, so enjoy it while it lasts. Bonus points to anyone who steals teleport while it's being cast, and arrives where furion is going before he does.
     
  32. CWheezy

    CWheezy Well-Known Member

    It isn't that convoluted I think, all his stolen spells have very low startup, like a fast move in a fighting game
     
  33. Eji1700

    Eji1700 Well-Known Member

    Thats just it, it's not all of them. Any spell with channeling will will not be faster, nor will some spells which use cast points(there's a chance that in dota 1 furions teleport is purposely not insta cast on rubrik simply for balance purposes, but i can't remember at all). The list of exceptions while long, thankfully don't matter too much because a good portion of them are on heroes who aren't in the game.

    That said the easiest example right now is SK's ult, which will still have the 2 second channel time before cast.
     
  34. CWheezy

    CWheezy Well-Known Member

    I think that channel time is actually unrelated to cast time, if that makes sense
     
  35. Eji1700

    Eji1700 Well-Known Member

    Yeah, but my big confusion stems from dota 1 amnesia. I swear that rubrik didn't have insta furion tp in dota 1, but it's not a channel, it's a cast time. So either something ported wrong, i can't remember things right, or that's a intentional balance decision and there might be others.

    Edit-
    I'm not crazy-
    http://www.itsgosu.com/game/dota2/blogs/rubick-for-dummies-mechanics-breakdown-and-faq_148

    Also a good link for general spell steal knowledge.
     
  36. Ehrgeix

    Ehrgeix Well-Known Member



    Link from winter - great vid on unconventional builds. The last one seems kind of bad but the first two are really interesting. Also great thought-process, I think.
     
  37. Eji1700

    Eji1700 Well-Known Member

    While i'm all for experimenting I found that video EXTREMELY pretentious. I mean yeah people need to realize that there's more than one build to a hero and that applied correctly alternate builds are most certainly effective. I STILL believe that most people are building alchemist wrong, and am trying to find some niffty way to make bloodseeker a little more viable(working on a perma silence lane), but arguing that you need to make your own "unique identifier build" is kinda overdoing it.

    On a related note I'm having a hard time seeing a point in deso anymore. With medallion giving the same armor drop, from range no less, i've found medallion+basher to be superior and similar in price. With the advantage of a later upgrade to abyssal.
     
  38. Polari

    Polari Well-Known Member

    I thought that video was dumb. "How to come up with unconventional builds... for the sake of playing unconventional builds." The reason people use cookie-cutter builds is not just that everyone tells them to, it's also because those builds are usually solid and if you don't know what you really should be doing, it's a low-risk choice. The real opportunity for unconventional builds is when you find yourself in an unconventional situation - maybe a hero is being played in a different role than usual for some reason, maybe the enemy team has a peculiar lineup and some other items will be more effective, maybe one of the teams is playing an offbeat strategy and you need to adapt. Adapting to the situation is a huge part of Dota and I've seen tons of unconventional builds in pro games because they worked in that specific game, not because those teams thought getting different items would be cool or unexpected.

    Ok so he starts with the idea of building a Rod of Atos on Krobelus. Sure, it's a fine item and gives you exactly what you need if there's an opposing melee carry you need to control or you find yourself chasing a lot and want some extra CC. I don't quite agree with his build but it's not too bad. Now he enters a game and finds himself with Krobe Bane Sniper Venge CK against Jugg ES Rylai Zeus Lina. The first thing I notice that the enemy team has huge amounts of burst, 4 of those heroes do basically only magic damage and even Jugg is going to spin for magic damage. So lots of Cloaks and a Pipe on someone, Krobelus clearly being the prime choice. Also raw hp will be good to survive the burst. So what does he build? Yes, of course the build he was theorycrafting earlier. The one with no magic resist, Tranquils for armor, only Rod for hp and a 2.8k item with no survivability. Great job.

    Using Juggernaut as a pusher is old news and the build looks ok. No complaints there.

    In the AM example I was with him when he said you should do this if you find yourself in a lineup of AM, Void, Spectre, Mortred, OD. Sure, you're not going to get all of those farmed no matter what you do and AM can handle being underfarmed better than the rest of the lineup. This is a good decision. Of course, then he goes support AM in a lineup of AM, Tiny, Venge, Sven, Razor. WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT?? Also he suggests building Necro because it's so much cheaper than Manta at 4900. Uh, yeah, Necro 1 does cost only 2700, but it's also a very weak item and Necro 3 costs 5200, more than Manta. Also it's not like Manta is all or nothing either, Yasha is a great item for very smooth buildup at 2150. Only the Ultimate Orb is hard to get.

    In general I get the feeling that this guy likes theorycrafting numbers more than playing Dota. Like why would you focus on finding sets of items that cost about the same total amount than the cookie-cutter build? In the Krobelus example none of those items have such a big effect on you that there would be a reason to call them your core. You could get basic boots, Rod of Atos, and be ready to fight. Upgrading to Tranquils and getting an Eul's is nice and all but doesn't change what you can or can't do. You might as well get any other boots or maybe start saving for a sheep or anything else, really.

    For comparison, how I approach Krobelus, assuming the usual solo mid carry role, is that I want enough survivability to keep my ult going in a teamfight, enough mana pool to be able to spam wave and preferably regen to roam in midgame and use wave for farming. Also would be nice to have some options for movespeed and chasing so I can finish people off without needing my team. The survivability can come in many forms depending on the enemy team. Pipe is obviously good if they have a lot of magic damage. Mek is always good on a tanky int carry. I've built Sange (304hp plus other stuff for 2150) into Halberd vs certain carries. Rod can work or even a plain Vitality Booster, possibly going into Heart super late. I'll almost always want Phase Boots mainly for movespeed and the extra damage is great midgame. Bottle is enough regen for the early game, but I'll probably want something else later. Eul's has great synergy with Krobelus but going for Sheep is always good too.

    In our case of Krobe Bane Sniper Venge CK against Jugg ES Rylai Zeus Lina, like I said earlier, my main focus is surviving their burst. Thus I'd be aiming for Pipe. It's a fairly expensive item so I'd try to skimp elsewhere to get myself functional as soon as possible. It would be nice if Venge or Bane got the Mek so I could get some cheap hp instead. My bare minimum would be Boots, Bottle, Vitality Booster, Cloak. There's a lot to upgrade here so I can also fit a Magic Wand in my inventory. Next I'll work on Hood, then Pipe. I should probably build Phases at some point, but if all goes well I could also see myself sticking with basic boots and going for Travels a bit later. Once I finish Pipe I'm set for fights but some mana would be nice, so start working on Eul's, ditching Wand or Bottle if needed. Finally convert the Vit Booster into Heart if the game is still dragging on and I somehow got that much farm.
     
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  39. Claytus

    Claytus Well-Known Member

    I think the problem is that video wasn't aimed at you, Polari. He's talking to beginners who would normally never alter their build.

    If you're taking time to analyze the lineup, and making specific decisions about what items counter other players, then you're already waaaay past the level he was aiming this at.
     
  40. Polari

    Polari Well-Known Member

    Now that I think more about it, I suppose it's a good message if you distill it down to "don't be afraid to try new things but pay attention to how expensive the items you're planning to get are". I do still think his thought process is backwards and on rewatching the video I don't like his presentation at all.

    Actually, I think a video with the same message could be good. Instead of making a huge deal about being unique and different, encourage thinking about different items and trying out ones you think could be good. Then instead of starting with the cost of some cookie-cutter build and thinking about what you could get with that, think about how you could craft a build that gives you everything the hero needs while keeping the farm requirements manageable. Almost the same thing but with a slightly different focus and it sounds much better to me.

    Also while he probably used the games he did as examples because they were the first ones he joined, he could have said something about paying some attention to what's going on in the game. I'm not great either, but it's not too hard to start looking at a few simple things. Like what kind of damage do their heroes deal? If it's clearly all physical or magical, choose survivability items accordingly. Do they have a hero that gets shafted hard by certain items and can I build them myself? I won't recognize many of these myself, but for example Orchid being great against heroes like Storm and QoP is pretty straightforward, and you could just build it instead of some random dps item you'd normally go for. If you deviate from the standard build, it should probably be because you're doing something different or playing against something different. If you don't know what you're doing or why you're doing it, chances are you'd be better off with that cookie-cutter build and that you won't learn much about why your ideas worked or didn't work.
     
  41. Eji1700

    Eji1700 Well-Known Member

    Speaking of, items i'm working on working into various builds-
    Veil of discord- People seem to HATE this item, but it seems to have absurd potential. The stats are rather lousy so i'm trying to wedge it in on a tanky caster early to really give them a huge damage boost. Perhaps Ogre or tide(tide would be more for team support).

    Rod of atos- Trying this as a core item on silencer, Rubrik, and Obsidian. The HP and bonus int is a nice package and a slow is semi useful. The trick seems to be getting it fast enough that I don't regret not going the cheaper forcestaff or more expensive toys like hex and silence.

    Heavens Halberd- Obviously a good anti late game item vs physical DPS(sup lycan), but I'm trying to figure out if there's anyone out there who could actually rush it. Maybe huskar?
     
  42. Polari

    Polari Well-Known Member

    My problem with those items is again that they are good, but usually there's something else you need. I like Rod and Halberd a lot and always keep them in mind on suitable heroes, but rarely end up building them. Veil I can see it on big aoe ult heroes and I've once been destroyed by such a team where Sand King got it, but it seems like it's good only when everything is going right for you anyway. Sure it can do some pretty big damage, but its stats are lackluster for a 2650g item and it doesn't really DO anything.
     
  43. Leartes

    Leartes Well-Known Member

    Halberd:
    str physical attackers usually have other problems than evasion and more +str and +dmg, also the active is not as good early as it gets later. Usually you want mobility (dagger), magic immunity (bkb), armlett for more dmg and survival early or vanguard for more protection earlier in the game. Even if you buy a sange for the hp, dmg and malm often I upgrade to S&Y instead as it gives movespeed which is always great.

    Veil:
    Only good as a team item to really own early/midgame teamfights. I usually pub so there is rarely a team composition to use it to its full extend. Even if we have a nice bursty team people go for other items since surviving is often better than killing even faster.

    Rod:
    Not sure why I always forget about this item. HP, +int and 800 range - sounds crazy good and is cheap enough to go for on many heroes that don't farm much. I usually make drums on everyone, maybe switching it up and going for rod instead would be great on many int casters.
     
  44. Logo

    Logo Well-Known Member

    I like Veil on Warlock with a fatal bonds build* since it synergizes so well with your abilities (provided you have heroes bringing some AoE nuking power to the team) and it's relatively cheap so it can kick in earlier than other big items for warlock. Plus grabbing something like the helm early-ish is good for Warlock's ability to auto-attack harass other heroes since you get the armor and hp regen.

    Plus for a support Warlock farms pretty well (and pushes well) and can afford to drop a little more gold on items if in a 4th/5th slot. Unless the team has a ton of blinks I'd much rather have Veil than 1/2 of an ult or sheep stick.

    Basically fatal bonds makes your team's total magic damage output 100% higher if you grab all 5 heroes. So the +25% damage from Veil effectively becomes +50% damage. Or more accurately Veil becomes plus 31.25%/35%/40%/45%/50% for 1/2/3/4/5 heroes bonded.

    *Veil doesn't work directly with fatal bonds, but the bonus damage spells deal will get bonded to other targets. Veil & Bond, Ult, root if you can do it in that order (usually you have to ult first for initiation) is downright deadly with any other AoE nuke backing it up.
     
  45. brainof7

    brainof7 Member

    I saw a funny video of Rubick pushing an enemy champion on the typical ward spot while fighting for a rune, and so they got stuck there with no way to do get off the ledge. It was pretty funny
     
  46. Leartes

    Leartes Well-Known Member

    It is a lot easier to do with dark seer. Basically you vacuum 1-2 heroes up a cliff and place your ulti ontop of them
    => constant illusions kill them.

    EDIT:
    On the other hand, if they have no tp and no courier it can be more fun to not kill them, therefore ulti is optional :D
     
  47. Jady

    Jady New Member

    Anyone know When Goblin will come? I wanna plant the bomb all the map :p
     
  48. Claytus

    Claytus Well-Known Member

    Oh man, Rubick is amazing. Like, new favorite hero... he totally looked lame on paper, but stealing spells is so much fun. I end up playing terribly with him because I'm laughing too hard at what he can pull off instead of actually trying to win;;

    Favorite steals so far: Dragon knight's dragon form, Puck's orb (+teleport!), anything jugg can do.
    Least effective spell steal: Broodmother's spin web;;
     
  49. Eji1700

    Eji1700 Well-Known Member

    Hook is rather evil and spin web can be used to clear a TON of trees. Not that useful by any means but if you've got it and you're chasing someone into a juke spot just nuke the forest so you have vision.

    In the meantime though I'm looking forward tremendously to disrupter and dirge finally being in game. Serious favorites of mine.
     
  50. icewolf34

    icewolf34 Well-Known Member

    Have you guys been playing games with each other? I finally got a Dota2-capable computer so I'm looking for more people to play with. I'm pretty bad but willing to play whatever role is needed, and also not a jerk about taking advice.

    profile name is theophany
     

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