Interest in a Witchhunt/Mafia/Werewolf Forum Game?

Discussion in 'Forum Games' started by Chocolate Pi, Jun 30, 2010.

  1. Avatar Z

    Avatar Z Well-Known Member

    I don't want to play this; I'm merely posting to say that the picture for the Medium card is totally awesome. d(^^)b
  2. -Y-

    -Y- Well-Known Member

    But I liked Twilight :D I especially liked Sparklelord.
  3. brainof7

    brainof7 Member

    ill give this a shot, looks interesting
  4. Fry

    Fry Well-Known Member

    This sounds like as much fun as yomi
  5. Chocolate Pi

    Chocolate Pi Well-Known Member

    The yomi layers in this game are really obvious, for any two parties.

    1. Powerful Innocents claim their roles publicly, so the other Innocents won't lynch them.
    2. Witches target players claiming to be powerful Innocents.
    3. Powerful Innocents claim to be weak innocents, so the Witches focus their killings elsewhere.
    4. Witches target people claiming to be weak Innocents.

    For actual weak Innocents, it's all just flipped. I've definitely played games where I've falsely claimed to be the Priest and gotten Witches to waste a kill on me.
  6. x1372

    x1372 Active Member

    Eh, I guess it depends what really qualifies as "win conditions" and such.

    Incidentally, we had one time where a friend of mine pulled this off.

    He was one of three mafias. Due to the way the games had gone, he had been saved 2 of the 4 previous games first round. He knew this.

    He had the mafia kill him. The angel saved him. Coincidentally, the searcher also checked him.

    So the storyteller announces that he was killed and saved. Searcher is screaming to get us to kill him, and we kill the searcher. Oops.
  7. koopatroop

    koopatroop Well-Known Member

    # Witches may *not* communicate privately in any way.
    # All other living players may communicate privately, including Witches with non-Witches.

    please explain? The statements seem contradictory.

    Also, how to dead people vote to protect if they can only say things like vodka. Is there a separate dead person forum?
  8. Chocolate Pi

    Chocolate Pi Well-Known Member

    Witches may not send PMs to other Witches. All other PMs between living players are permitted.

    In any real-life game, Witches do not have the luxury of mass private communication. (Frankly, no one does, but only the Witch group case can create degenerate behavior.)

    It's really obvious with roles involved; if the Witches had private group communication, optimal behavior is very clearly to claim roles. With the current mechanics this would be degenerate in favor of the Witches.

    I'll clarify that in the rules and here.

    At GDC it's been a long-running joke that dead players are zombies and can only say "blood" and "brains". "Cheese" was added at some point, and "vodka" was a recent addition. I'll prune this pointlessness from the actual rules to avoid confusion.

    And yeah, I'll provide a chat for angels to discuss and vote. Unlike Witches this requires no special rules.
  9. -Y-

    -Y- Well-Known Member

    Can bad witches become angels?

    PS. I'm interested if this but I'll might have to see how my schedule fits with it.
  10. koopatroop

    koopatroop Well-Known Member

    So if I am a witch, I can send a private message, but only if I know the receiver is not a witch?

    Ok maybe that makes sense. I was thinking I wouldn't know who witches were, but all the witches know the other witches.
  11. ChadMiller

    ChadMiller Well-Known Member

    I'll give it a shot.
  12. Bucky

    Bucky Well-Known Member

    Wait, so witches can send the Junior Witch messages, but the Junior Witch cannot reply?
  13. Fry

    Fry Well-Known Member

    Yeah, it really seems like allowing private communication at all is a bad idea.
  14. ChadMiller

    ChadMiller Well-Known Member

    I don't understand why this is the assumption. I thought the Junior Witch was just a witch that could hold off on voting and won't trigger detect evil until she does. Am I mistaken?
  15. Chocolate Pi

    Chocolate Pi Well-Known Member

    Everyone becomes angels. If the Town is hitting the Witches hard early on, the Witches might have the numbers to sabotage the Angel vote to help come back a bit.

    Yeah, this actually makes the most sense and most simulates real life Witchhunt while minimizing the number of rules. I dunno what I was thinking.

    Adjusting rules now. Done. No private communication.

    Edit:
    The Junior Witch doesn't join the Witches AT ALL until she decides to "come out". They have no idea who she is. If she comes out late, there is a higher chance of the Witches accidentally killing her but there is also a higher chance of the Priest checking her and getting a false read.

    Note that the Spy doesn't know who she is either. The Junior Witch can delay her coming out to limit the Spy's power over the Witches.
  16. Sotek

    Sotek Super Moderator Staff Member

    I want in, holy shit.
  17. link6616

    link6616 Well-Known Member

    Won't the lack of private communication make things difficult for organizing/co-ordinating the vote? Or am i missing something (the latter is the most likely though)
  18. Sotek

    Sotek Super Moderator Staff Member

    Nah, what happens is that witches go to a chatroom and just pick from the limited set of actions.

    And the dead guys can communicate as they want still, apparently.
  19. Chocolate Pi

    Chocolate Pi Well-Known Member

    The vote is not blind/synchronous. There is a deadline, but most the gameplay involves people starting, joining, or arguing against bandwagons.

    Very often gameplay hinges on someone needing one more vote for a majority cast against them, and one person holds out or finally joins in. It's very dramatic.

    Edit: But as for the Witches and Angels, they get a chat to coordinate their group votes as needed, yeah.
  20. Sotek

    Sotek Super Moderator Staff Member

    So, anyway, when's this gonna start?
  21. CWheezy

    CWheezy Well-Known Member

    Sure I am down to play now, hopefully I wont get voted off the island too soon
  22. link6616

    link6616 Well-Known Member

    But there in lies the brilliance, when you die you get shifted to a position of power.
  23. Chocolate Pi

    Chocolate Pi Well-Known Member

    I'm thinking about doing 96 hour days; 72 hours for a "Day" phase, and 24 hours for each "Night". I'm also going to throw out July 5th as a potential start time.

    Edit: Please offer opinions, since this is an important detail!
  24. Sotek

    Sotek Super Moderator Staff Member

    I am in favor of it starting sooner rather than later, I am also in favor of shorter times as opposed to longer times, although I agree that nights shorter than days is a good idea.
  25. Chocolate Pi

    Chocolate Pi Well-Known Member

    Throw out some times, we'll see what people think.

    I'm in favor of as-short-as-possible-as-in-real-time-via-AIM-finish-in-an-hour, but it's jsut a matter of being accommodating. Large groups spanning several time zones make it nontrivial.
  26. link6616

    link6616 Well-Known Member

    I'd think we could manage 24 hour day, and 24 hour night (nights could be shorter, but it would make things very confusing very quickly if they were less than a day)

    I think it would also be easiest to state times based of GMT 0, as we all know our respective time zones and it's easier to work out when you stand in relation to that. Yay GMT+10!
  27. Chocolate Pi

    Chocolate Pi Well-Known Member

    24 hours won't allow some people to respond to others even once though. It wouldn't be a total disaster, but it'd be limiting and probably frustrating at times.

    Naturally.
  28. darkcrobat

    darkcrobat Member

    I just discovered that I'll be away for 5 days in about a week, so probably count me out from the first game :( although I'd be happy to help admin when I get back, or participate in later games.
  29. Milskidasith

    Milskidasith Active Member

    I'm gong to be gone in about three weeks, so... yeah. Not sure if that would be a problem, but I suppose you could let a dead player take over for me if I survive that long or something. Or just not allow me to play.
  30. galefrost

    galefrost Member

    I don't think I'll have any availability issues within the next few weeks. Time zone is GMT - 8 until I move back to college in mid-August, at which point it'll be GMT - 5.
  31. ryzol

    ryzol Member

    I might do this. How many days does a game take?
  32. brainof7

    brainof7 Member

    4 days 2 votes, divided by number of players it looks like
  33. Chocolate Pi

    Chocolate Pi Well-Known Member

    I'm thinking we'll do 72 hour cycles to move a little bit faster; 48 hour "days" and 24 hour "nights".

    Limited absence is not an issue, as long as you can manage one of three solutions for the phase:
    • Designate all votes/actions ahead of time, explicitly.
    • Appoint another player as a proxy.
    • Get an alternate to step in for you.
    Although it's something we what of little of as possible, it's not a big deal and shouldn't keep anyone from playing.

    If there's overwhelming support I'm in favor of starting ASAP, but again the most likely case is that people will need notice and be busy 4th of July weekend. (Us yankees at least.) I'm planning on sending out confirmation PMs for a game start at some time on July 5/6th.

    People will still be permitted (and encouraged) to join up until the game start. At that moment the number of players and roles in-use will be locked in, and the role PMs will be sent. (I'll post the game topic then as well.)
  34. ChadMiller

    ChadMiller Well-Known Member

    I'll start whenever.
  35. Lofobal

    Lofobal Well-Known Member

    This is good.


    edit - 48 hours does not seem like enough daytime. 72 seems better.
  36. Sotek

    Sotek Super Moderator Staff Member

    I am ready for a start at any moment, I am at GMT -5. I have no planned absences.
  37. ryzol

    ryzol Member

    If it will start 5th or later, count me in.
  38. -Y-

    -Y- Well-Known Member

    Pretty much this.

    PS. Scratch that. I'm in GMT +1 here so PM when you sort this with admin, etc.
  39. Chocolate Pi

    Chocolate Pi Well-Known Member

    This might seem counter-intuitive, but in a forum game there's no reason discussion has to stop at "Night". Although the Town Vote is already over and the results of the Night will provide additional information, meaningful gameplay and questioning can still take place. Best of both worlds.

    Thoughts?

    Edit: Oh yeah, I sent the confirmation PMs. If you didn't get one and want to play (even if you never posted interest) just send me a PM.
  40. Sotek

    Sotek Super Moderator Staff Member

    It starts with a night, right? If so, I'd suggest "starting" once you think you know who all is involved, but having that first night run either until the 6th or until a consensus is reached (and if the consensus is reached let the first day run long to fill up that time) since that'll let it start soon but let people who don't want to be on the forums for the holiday still participate.
  41. Chocolate Pi

    Chocolate Pi Well-Known Member

    It starts with a Day; it is up to the town if they would like to lynch first with minimal information, or let the Witches have the first kill. It's low activity compared to what follows, so it's good timing for us. (Edit: You can think of this as the optional "pre-game" kill.)

    First Night phase will be July 7th at 18:00 GMT.

    Double Edit: Also, this is a last chance for any pre-game rules clarifications. Of course one of the benefits of a forum game is rules questions can be made via PM at any time with no awkwardness, but now is the time for public questions that benefit everyone.
  42. darkcrobat

    darkcrobat Member

    So we send the people who we are scanning/killing/voting for etc. to you each night? (or at the appropriate time) Or do we post it in the forum?
  43. Chocolate Pi

    Chocolate Pi Well-Known Member

    Town Votes are public.
    Witch Votes take place in the Witch chat, which Witch role PMs explain.
    Angel Votes take place in the Angel chat similarly.
    All other Night actions take place via PMs to the moderator.

    I'm hoping we get (at least) 16 confirmed players. That would be a nice number.
  44. x1372

    x1372 Active Member

    Ok one more clarification before the game starts:

    How is the timing done for Martyr/Leeroy (if they're in the game)?

    Does the martyr have x amount of time after a kill is announced to undo it?

    Can Leeroy do his thing after a vote has been decided?
  45. Chocolate Pi

    Chocolate Pi Well-Known Member

    The role PMs make this clear. Leeroy has to act before the vote is complete. The Martyr has to respond ASAP to the death, and he is permitted to queue a reaction in advance should he need to. (We won't have Leeroy in play with these numbers, and possible not the Martyr.)
  46. garcia1000

    garcia1000 World Champion Staff Member

    Here is a question
    What is the prevention for the spy instantly outing all the witches and then the townspeople all lynch them? The werewolf win condition seems like it will occur too late to matter (?)
  47. Chocolate Pi

    Chocolate Pi Well-Known Member

    If the Spy sacrifices himself to take out the Witches, the town's only hope at stopping the Werewolf is the D.O.B. The Witches will go down in a blaze of glory in hopes of giving the Junior Witch some decent chance of winning. This may involve one or more of the doomed Witches also claiming to be the Spy, and throwing a lot of misinformation around. To be sure, the town would have to kill everyone each claimed Spy accused.

    FYI, the design question of "how can we make a Spy work?" was something I was stuck on for like, all of 2007.

    Oh, and the funny thing was we already had the D.O.B. and Survivalist jsut because they were classic roles that worked well already. I didn't even realize for like a year just how critical they were to the Werewolf working, we just took it for granted. Without a D.O.B. the win rate of the Werewolf is way too high, and without the Survivalist it's way too low. Together it works out perfectly.
  48. Sotek

    Sotek Super Moderator Staff Member

    Also, the town can only lynch one person/day, and the witches would be well-advised to, in that case, ensure that the claimed spies *all* die early - so that it's not revealed who the actual spy is by the fact of witch-killings. And of course the witches can mix up the order they kill spy-claimers in (since yes, they would know which one is the real one).

    And anyway, once all the claimed spies are dead, the junior witch can flip over and start killing.

    Also, if the DOB is around and the witches are gone, it seems like the Survivor wants to claim survivorship and get lynched twice just to be eliminated and avoid confusion, and then the DOB should claim - other townies wouldn't want to claim DOB, if the werewolf claims DOB too it's easily solved - just lynch one, if he's the DOB he kills the other, if the werewolf he's revealed and the DOB gets him next time...

    ... hmm, maybe the wolf cub would want to claim DOB in that situation. In fact, yeah, the wolf cub would want to claim DOB and the werewolf not claim anything... but that assumes a wolf cub.

    ... although I guess it doesn't matter, since the amount of time that takes is long enough that the werewolf wins on time, huh?

    Impressive how it all ties together, actually.
  49. Chocolate Pi

    Chocolate Pi Well-Known Member

    If all the Witches are gone and the D.O.B. is still alive, he can claim and the Innocents win as long as they can find the Werewolf in time. If the Priest/Bishop helped out at any point, it shouldn't be difficult but not guaranteed.

    However, all Witches CONFIRMED gone takes a very large number of days and nights. The total casualty rate should equal at least double the number of Witches.
  50. garcia1000

    garcia1000 World Champion Staff Member

    Oh cool, thanks!

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