League of Legends: True Successor Thread

Discussion in 'Now Playing' started by WinterAyars, Aug 10, 2011.

  1. WinterAyars

    WinterAyars Member

    I'm starting a new thread so new people won't have to wade through ten pages of drama bomb.

    This thread is about League of Legends, a crazy popular "free to play" (meaning get out your wallets) "MOBA"/"Action RTS"/"DotA clone"/etc game. Enjoy.
  2. Karrius

    Karrius Well-Known Member

    When the fuck is Riot going to do something about people who never connect to games and end up getting randomed? People are just forced to either waste 20 minutes or queue dodge them, and have to sit through the queue again and take the queue dodge penalty. Fucking ridiculous.
  3. WinterAyars

    WinterAyars Member

    Patch notes are out.


    • Skarner is more interesting than i expected
    • Global blinkstrike change: everyone attempts attacks immediately. That's nice, and helps certain characters (ie Jax) who have trouble "locking on".
    • Brand got a fix. His skills often feel extremely awkward and unsatisfying, so fixing one of the unsatisfying things (skills stop working after he dies) is nice.
    • Slight Fiddle changes. I think they said they were going to nerf him, but i don't entirely see this as a nerf. Kind of a wash.
    • Pirate nerf, kind of. Doubt it'll be enough. He's super dominant in disorganized games...
    • Garen got a meaningful buff, i think. Really clarified the "correct" skill path for him, and strengthened it.
    • Further, slight, Jarvan buffs.
    • "Fixed a bug where Jax's attacks could not be dodged" -- well that explains that.
    • Kayle buff: this is kind of innocuous, but it really jumped out at me. I'm going to experiment with a Kayle build. +50% to the "shred" rate and they fixed the bug??
    • Leona buffs: now this is relevant to my interests. I've basically given up on Leona--i love playing her, but ultimately she just doesn't fit with the game. She still doesn't fit, but slight improvement. That said, they shrunk the range of the aoe indicator on her E rather than increasing the range. Sad times. It's a welcome change, and overall an improvement though.
    • Morg buffs are always relevant.
    • Lots of Nasus buffs. I think it's relevant, but it's hard to see if he'll be good. Could become amazing, could stay not so amazing.
    • Pantheon remake (yet again): I don't really know what to say. CWheezy hates it, but i guess i would expect him to. It looks kind of interesting, but we'll see.
    • Additional buff, but not to the range on his spin so i suspect he's still no good. Riot repeatedly refuses to buff the range on his spin when that is the only thing that matters.
    • Wukong buffs/fixes are helpful. Still haven't played this character.
    • There are some small targeting improvements. I haven't really "noticed" them, but then maybe you just aren't going to? Regardless, targeting in this game is extremely unfortunate.
  4. Cauldrath

    Cauldrath Member

    I went to try out the Morg changes and both games I played the rest of the team refused to play a tank, even after I insisted that I suck at it. Guess I'll try again tomorrow.

    I really like Skarner's passive, just like I like the way Taric's heal works. I think it would be really cool on a character with good ranged persistent AoE debuffing attacks, though, since it would create an interesting dynamic of a character that controls space while still needing to be on the front line, like a tank version of Cass or Morg. Maybe give that character stacking magic penetration bonuses from melee attacks, too.

    On another note, I didn't even realize threads could be locked around here and that was the whole reason for the trash folder.
  5. Eji1700

    Eji1700 Well-Known Member

    This brings up an odd point.

    1. I hate this since it seems to be every other game for me.
    2. It just hit me that in the old days dot a had an insane load time. Now I can play dot a faster than I can lol. They need to fix these glitches.

    Also scorps ult is such.....meh. I really wish they did more with the mechanic
  6. Karrius

    Karrius Well-Known Member

    He's pretty interesting. The best way I've seen to play him is go early sheen and be SUPER harassy - best duo bot with a healer to let you go super harassy, build the sheen into trinity force, and then just go tank. Sunfire to let you survive and spin to win to defend your allies. I say this not having played him myself.
  7. WinterAyars

    WinterAyars Member

    Skarner can spin to win... that's the fifth character necessary for Team Spin to Win.

  8. monkeyswinkle

    monkeyswinkle Member

    If it accurately shows the hitbox now, then I'd be happy enough, I guess. That was a big frustration when I was trying her out. You'd get ready to do some big badass combo, and you'd think you'd be able to land that hook... but it didn't stick even though it looked like it would. Then you just look around for some nearby creep to blow your shield on and wipe the single tear rolling down your cheek.
  9. WinterAyars

    WinterAyars Member

    WaterD asked for a comparison of AP vs. spell pen build. Here we go:

    Deathcap vs. Sorcs/Guise. Both using spell pen mark/quint and 9/0/21.

    Deathcap build is 3600, Sorcs/Guise/Codex is 3830, vs a 70 resist target, and at level 18. (Deathcap is cheaper, but presumably there is some boot purchasing going on that i'm overlooking here.)

    The initial burst for Deathcap is 967.4, after a 10 seconds it's 1805.8.

    The initial burst for Sorcs/Guise is 979.2, after a 10 second spell refresh it's 2041.9.

    70 resist is a pretty good break point there. If it went down to 30-50 the spell pen build would clearly win, if it went up to 100 the Deathcap build would win. (But barely, actually--within 90% on the initial burst, then stronger over time.)

    Let's say the Deathcap build adds some spell pen--Void Staff, specifically. It's now up to 5895 gold for the Deathcap build. Add Morello's to the spell pen build and that's up to 4935.

    The Deathcap build is up to 1269.7 damage for the initial burst, 2394.8 damage over ten seconds.

    The spell pen build is up to 1088.3 damage for the initial burst, 2298.9 for the damage over ten seconds.

    That's pretty close, though the Deathcap build pulls ahead a bit. When you add in the damage from (ie) Tibbers Aura and, potentially, Molten Shield then it'll get closer. In addition, the spell pen build has more stun power (slightly). The spell pen build is also about 1k gold cheaper, so additional items can be added to fill in.

    In addition, the Deathcap build has to buy some boots. It's definitely worse until you get at least the finished Deathcap, and early game magic resist is weaker.

    Let me know if this is not convincing.

    In other news, that answers that question.


    If, instead of Codex, you go Abyssal it gets even better for spell pen now that i think about it. At 5235 gold, it's still cheaper than the hat build, and it does 1223.1 in the initial burst, with 2580.7 damage over ten seconds. Plus you get a bunch of magic resist. Oh yeah, Guise gives you +200 hp as well. Note that the build is even giving away some damage because the target is only at 70 resist. The crossover point for the damage over time build is at around 100 resist, here. Above 100 the Deathcap build is higher, below and the spell pen build is higher.

    AP is slightly higher burst, while spell pen is slightly higher damage over time just due to the way her skills work. If you add in cooldown reduction, though, that increases the damage over time substantially. Deathcap + Void Staff will do a bit more damage initially, but will lose to a spell pen/cooldown build over a long period of time. Deathcap is worse early game (everything up to the point where you get Deathcap) and has a bunch of other negatives as well.

    On Annie, at least, focusing on spell pen is a viable option.
  10. TheRealBobMan

    TheRealBobMan Member

    Looking at Kayle, I think that in theory, she needs reworking.

    At first, she was built around being able to use a projectile to slow, which did some damage and granted her other attacks bonus damage. So what does she attack with? Her heal? Her ult? No, her sword after she boosts her range/damage (and it was sort of worth it with the old effect that attack boosted AP and AP boosted attack).

    So with this change (I think it's a cool one by the way), she wants to hit people to drop their armor and resistance. I think this will make her cool for support.

    However, she was retooled for her Q to do damage and be good at harassing or getting kills right? Seems to me that she would want to hit people to drop their resist before dropping that Q in there, or maybe Q > 5 attacks with her E sword > Q again.

    So, I'm wondering why even bother with the slight damage buff she's going to get against her Q target? Why not put some other effect on there? Might as well have it drop armor or magic resist (or both!) by a little bit more. Hopefully a flat value. : )

    That damage buff she gives herself while they're slowed is only 5% right? That's pretty meh. It's only for her and it's sort of a shitty increase.

    If a flat reduction is too much, maybe they could have it count for 2 or 3 stacks of her innate ability. That might make it good for initiating, since she could sort of cripple one person (drop speed and armor/resist) and go on to attack someone else and start doing it to their whole team.

    And actually, does anyone know if her ability applies to people splashed by her E?
  11. CWheezy

    CWheezy Well-Known Member

    I played a game with this pantheon. It is still sad, but at least at level 3 he gets some harass back.

    The ult nerfs hurts soooooooo incredibly badly, it is terrible awful now and destroys his map presence, everything else is meh, the change to just bonus ad hurt a lot as well. Barely, BARELY playable.

    I wouldn't pick him in a tournament

    With his ult as it is, he can only solo mid, because he still needs to gank. If you go top, you can only gank mid, same with bottom, and with bottom he needs to farm, so you can't really put him with a ranged carry.

    Sad sad
  12. Waterd103

    Waterd103 Well-Known Member

    For some reason I cant edit the post in the other thread so I will repost my tier list updated in this thread

    The purpose of this tier List is to help others to think what champs improve, what to pick and ban in ranked. And is a tier list for Solo/dual ranked. Which is what im only playing now.
    Its also to induce discussion about the tier itself and thus help general improvement and debate.

    Tier S: Champions that overshadow all other champs, and that should be picked for their roles if there is a player that can play the respective champ well.

    Tier 1: The core champs, Champs that are the core of the current metagame and should be the standard pick for their respective roles.

    Tier 2: Slightly UP champs that are reasonable to pick under the right conditions.

    Tier 3: Quite UP champs that could be still borderline good picks based on player or gimmick reasons.

    Tier T: Champs that are so weak that I consider a mistake to pick.

    Internally in a tier, I arrange them from left to right from Better to worse imo.

    August 27

    Tier 1: Orianna, Gangplank, Warwick, Mordekasier, Soraka, Zilean, Brand, Cho gath, Annie, Vayne, Ashe.

    Tier 2: Aumumu, Nocturne, Corki, Fiddlesticks, Taric, Janna, Rumble, Udyr, Nidalee, Caitlyn, Anivia, Irelia, Akali, Lee sin, Jax, Cassiopeia, Tristana, Urgot, Alistar, Sona, Singed, Karthus, Mal'zahar, Vladimir, Gragas, Kennen, Kog'Maw, Trundle, Garen.

    Tier 3: Jarvan, Galio, Poppy, Miss Fortune, Pantheon, Nasus, Leona, Kassadin, Teemo, Renekton, Twisted Fate, Blitzcrank, Ezreal, Swain, Morgana, Maokai, Veigar.

    Tier T: Nunu, Yorick, Xin Zaho, Shen, Malphite, Tryndamare, Olaf, Rammus, Kayle, Katarina, Karma, Sivir, Leblanc, Shaco, Master yi, Wukong, Sion, Heimerdinger, Twitch, Mundo, Evelynn, Skarner, Ryze, Lux.
  13. qzujak49

    qzujak49 Active Member

  14. unentschieden

    unentschieden Member

    Why is Lux "Trash"? She works exceptionally well in a kiting based composition.
  15. Waterd103

    Waterd103 Well-Known Member

    Here are some facts:
    I never ever ever see her picked in high elo ranked, tournament games or my elo games (17xx)

    B) When I play normals or my alt accounts with say 13xx/14xx elo, I find her winning ratio is like 5%, really everytime i see a lux in a team it does NOTHING and the team loses.

    C) Ive tried her and she is too mana hungry, too high cooldowns and doesnt do really much anything. She is squishy as hell. She itemize quite well but it means she needs farm and she is less effective than real carries with farm. So giving farm to her seems wrong.

    d) So lets say you put her in a solo lane, she is gonna be worse than real ap caster with all that gold. In dual lane you wont farm her over say miss fortune, so she is a support with no farm? then i dont think she does nearly as well as janna/sona, etc
  16. Milskidasith

    Milskidasith Active Member

    I think Lux used to be used a decent pick, but uhh... why use her when you've got Orianna now? Lux's thing was that she had some decent massive ranged harassment, so at least she had a niche, but now Orianna has a long ranged shield, a long ranged poke, a long ranged AoE damage + zone of control, and some long ranged soft CC, along with better damage.

    I dunno, I was never great at Lux, but I think she used to be able to hold a lane well, even if she couldn't do much after that.
  17. monkeyswinkle

    monkeyswinkle Member

    Yeah, this.

    I still see Elementz and Roku pulling out Lux on streams in solo queue. But, yeah, Oriana pretty much took Lux's niche. I'm not sure Lux is the absolute worst champ in the game, but I can't disagree too much with her placement.
  18. Waterd103

    Waterd103 Well-Known Member

    I want to say that there is elo inflation or something, I remember when 17xx level was hard, not the level at 17xx is kind of low. I think right now 17xx is as hard as 15xx used to be
  19. Dan

    Dan Member

    This happens in every game that uses a standard ELO system or something close to that. It's because the average ELO must always be constant. New players come in and lose, and then some of them stop playing (maybe because they just wanted to try it out in the short-term, or maybe expressly because they were losing). And so then they have raised the average ELO for everyone that continued to play in this way. Furthermore, because ELO scores adjustments on a win/loss are based only on the difference between scores of the players, this means that for the rest of the community it's still just as easy to move up or down as it would have been; all active players just have higher average ELO.
  20. Karrius

    Karrius Well-Known Member

    I am surprised to see Cho'gath so high on your list, WaterD. Is there a specific way you think he should be built?

    Also, I'm sad to see Shen so low. I really feel he deserves a bit of a boost, if for no other reason than the other tanks kind of suck. I also think you need to re-evaluate Nasus, although he has the major problem that you basically need to have a good Soraka or similar in the lane with him.
  21. TheRealBobMan

    TheRealBobMan Member

    I went ahead and played a match with Kayle last night. She felt really shitty. All my damage came from Q and it wasn't really all that much. Feels like all she wants to do is build AP and do damage with the short cool down or something. They need to retool her again.
  22. WinterAyars

    WinterAyars Member

    Chu bailed.

    Despite dumping all over LoL (what was he, #1 for like ten minutes after getting hard carried by actual players?) his critiques are kind of correct. It's passive and dumb and flash is migraine-inducingly awful. It lacks features that are basically requirements for being a credible competitive game.

    Chu is way too invested in the "True DotA Way" (denying! Last hits!) to be taken too seriously, here, but this is the sort of stuff i was saying basically from the start. League more and more appears to be a game for "casual farmbots" dressed up in a competition uniform. But it's not a real competition uniform, it's just a knockoff that doesn't actually work.

    I really wish it was better, but what can you do?

    There has definitely been Elo inflation. My understanding is that 1.7-1.8k a while ago is closer to 2k now. Some months ago, #1 was 2400. I think #1 is currently closing in on 2600.

    Regarding Lux: i'm convinced Lux is adequate-ish. Way better than bottom tier all by herself. I don't feel like getting good enough at her again to prove it, though. Roku (and some others) have made a pretty big mark by using Lux, and still pull her out. She's not tournament-worthy, and (importantly) Orianna is game-breakingly amazing, but she's not a bottom tier all by herself.

    Then again, i say this every time Waterd posts a tier list.


    On another note: this made my head explode...
  23. Lameador2

    Lameador2 Member

    Lux is a completely dominated char. Not horrible but there is almost always something better to pick.

    Maybe because in a 80+ champs game, "ranged AP caster with a light stun and some vague support" is not exactly a very specific character concept ?

    BTW why aren't evelynn and twitch in the trash bin of your tier list ? both are purposely unusable and must have a 30% win rate at best.
  24. Milskidasith

    Milskidasith Active Member

    Ugh, I keep seeing people who say that the Trynd fury changes are a buff, and the math proves them so wrong it's not funny... it's only a buff if you're in a lane where you dick around and miss last hits while autoattacking a ton.
  25. Waterd103

    Waterd103 Well-Known Member

    Cho gath should be build tank but you can go AP if you feel you need to dominate the game also abysal scepter is a good item that is both defensive and offensive. In any case im not cho expert. But hte reason is that cho is what i call a wall. You hit him in the lane in nothing happens, he can 1v2 no problem, if you want someone to 1v2 because you want to do some weird strat or just have a romaer cho gath can 1v2 and not care. He is impossible to move from the lane, its lane capability is amazing. You can go very tanky and still have a lot of CC and damage. Frozen hearth is greath for that reazon gives him armor mana, and CDR all things he loves.
    Basically he doesnt lose lanes, no matter how bad they are, and he is decent later.

    Shen does so little, its the tank you can ignore, he doesnt do much. he isnt even that tough, so going more offensive items doesnt cut it. because it will explode.

    Nasus needs a lot of farm, and he is not great laner, that basically sums him up. He is decent tough, he is in tier 2 which is fine. Is just that when you think on the alternatives he is just outshined

    Also your comment that other tanks are crappy seems weird to me? WW, Jarvan, Alistar, cho gath, Amumu, singed all great tanks.
  26. Waterd103

    Waterd103 Well-Known Member

    Cho comments are 100% true, despite I dont respect his word so much. I would like to see what has been the lol and riot community that a statement we all know its true.
  27. acidile

    acidile Member

    Sooo my team signed up for WCG Canada qualifiers to start getting some tourney experience. We've progressed a few rounds in and are playing CLG tonight (HotshotGG, Elementz, TheOddone and 2 other guys). Should be a pretty good learning experience, looking forward to it.

    Some more thoughts (whining) after playing a bit more:

    • Starting to get really frustrated playing with my real-life friends already, even those that have hundreds more games played than me. Huge DOTA flashbacks, except this time I can't even play 1-player carries with them! AFK to grind a billion swords for 1-player heros / runes.

    • Flash/Wards/Farm are still really stupid, especially wards.

    • Support is so poorly designed in this game it's unreal. DOTA had it way better, where most support characters were roamers / soft gankers.

    • 2 viable roaming heros in a cast of 80? This absolutely blows my mind. I'm fine with babysitter+carry being a viable option when making a team, but without viable roaming characters aggressive play is barely even an option.

    • Alistar is the only rewarding support/roaming character in the game atm, you actually feel like you are accomplishing things.

    • Bottom lane is stupid right now. It's a huge waste to use two heros that need cs, so you're pretty much pigeonholed into a small set of heros. Are there any good aggressive lanes that aren't Alistar+AD carry or Taric+Brand/AD? Taric lanes minus Taric+Brand don't even feel 'aggressive' so I don't know.

    • This game is BAD, but I still want to play it more (???)

    • Did I mention that wards are dumb?

    • Probably beating a dead horse here, but Riot clearly has some really bad design philosophies. They seem to be absolutely terrified of unique / powerful moves. The global nerf on TF to me was a big sign of it. In an 80 hero game, is one hero having a global teleport really outside the design space of the game? I understand that he was too strong, but the way they chose to nerf him really bothered me.

      Amidst all of DOTA's problems, the hero balance/design really shone. They managed to create heros and team possibilities that felt very different, and very strong. Warlock/Axe cutting off creep waves at level 1? Black Hole AoE teams? Ultra late game rice teams? Babysitting lanes and double nuker lanes both super-viable? Tri-lanes? SUPER Hard roaming characters? There was just so many cool things that you could do, in LoL everything just feels...the same.

    I'm still grinding a ton of games, add me etc. (username acidile)
  28. Bucky

    Bucky Well-Known Member

    The initial grind is a major factor in Elo inflation. Independently of actual skill, new players are not competitive for their first 100 hours or so because they are missing critical tools.
  29. monkeyswinkle

    monkeyswinkle Member

    Yeah, but they also aren't playing ranked games.
  30. Lameador2

    Lameador2 Member

    lol really ?

    The inital grind is a HUGE factor in LIMITING inflation

    Since you must grind so much, you dont restart a new 1200 ELO account as soon as you drop below 1000 ranked ELO
  31. icewolf34

    icewolf34 Well-Known Member

    Has anyone had any luck getting LoL to run in OSX? (Bootcamp is not an option for me unfortunately).
  32. WinterAyars

    WinterAyars Member

    Generally, when roamers have appeared in the game Riot has nerfed them. Which is bizarre, but i guess everyone has to just sit in their lanes and farm 24/7 and never leave. Add on to the fact that full time jungle is mandatory, and "standard" bot lanes can crush solo characters (in cs, if not kills).

    Regarding the rest: Congratulations, you've come to the exact same conclusions everyone else has about this game. :confetti:

    That's the problem. New players learn bad things because they're only allowed to play with other bad players (or climb normal ladder, where you have zero feedback mechanism) and don't have all the tools available (rune and, increasingly, champion availability is particularly painful.) Then, when they get to ranked, they still don't have all the champions/runes and have to un-learn a bunch of awful stuff to climb, so they sink like a rock. (I think the bottom player is somewhere around 300 elo, for reference.)

    Might want to look here, although it's not a terribly big help.
  33. Logo

    Logo Well-Known Member

    To be fair in HoN you still see people at the 300-400 ELO range (starting ELO is 1400) and this was before it was F2P. So some people are going to sink regardless.
  34. Waterd103

    Waterd103 Well-Known Member

    Yeah sadly 5v5 is really stupid, sometimes i decide to jump in 5 man ranked and games are so sad. Im not saying solo ranked is much better. But at least solo ranked have those games where there is some bad players that destroy the harmony of 5v5.

    The harmony i talk is that harmony where attacking anywhere is stupid because there are no weak spots and farming until minute 15 (to be generous) is the best option.

    What we used to do tough is to pick inferior but more fun lineups. you can go for Taric/garen or poppy/alistar, or put pantheon mid, or have nunu/shaco as jungler or all that combined, that will give games more dynamism, HOWEVER. all that has been nerfed because they created early game interaction. YEAH

    So its just inferior to standard, send WALL top (Wall i call champs that is a fucking waste of time to gank/harrass or even have in mind aka WW, UDYR, CHO GATH,etc)

    Mid Ap ranked nuker

    Bottom healer/Ad ranged


    YEs notice how the most passive options are in fact the best options in LOL. But then you have people that say flash and CV makes the game more agressive(lol to all that)

    L0cust was a big pusher for aggressive games in the council forums and at this point he surrender and I think he even managed to convince himself the game is not so passive.
  35. ChadMiller

    ChadMiller Well-Known Member

    Quoting to save this for future reference.

    EDIT: This is what I mean by that: http://forums.sirlin.net/showpost.php?p=139623&postcount=39
  36. Waterd103

    Waterd103 Well-Known Member

    About supports, taric is fine. And Im ok with having A support that just walks behind heroes but the game doesnt need 3 (Soraka, Janna, Sona) I have to say I enjoy playing Soraka and sonna tough. (I dont enjoy Janna but because she is so hard to execute things and im a low execution guy) I think though its frustrating to play against them, And generate passive gameplay.
  37. monkeyswinkle

    monkeyswinkle Member

    Brand new players to an ELO system will inflate the average, as Dan said, because they come in at a set ELO, and feed it out to the rest of the player pool, then possibly leave. I guess I'm just not convinced that the initial grinding will make that worse for ranked ELO, once people get to that point. Since the new people are limited to normals, that's gonna inflate the normal ELO a lot... but does that really matter? I assume we're all really talking about the ranked ELOs.

    I don't necessarily disagree with what you said. Blind pick normals, with limited runes, masteries, champions, summoner spells, etc., with poor feedback during the learning process leading to developing bad habits probably does have an effect on draft mode ranked ELO inflation. Once players have access to ranked games, they might not be prepared for them, and feed ELO into the system, and possibly go back to normals forever or something. On the other hand, you also learn the game, and are going to be in a better spot than if you could just jump into ranked right off the bat (whether you have fully unlocked content or not), so that might limit the ELO inflation a bit compared to the ELO inflation going on in the normals during the learning process. Buuuuut, I really don't want to dig up that dead horse named Grinding Pros and Cons and beat it some more.

    I guess I'm just not sure how much of an impact the grinding part before being introduced to ranked is going to affect ELO inflation relative to the inflation you are going to get simply from introducing new players into the pool. I guess that was sort of more what I was getting at in my previous one sentence, hehe.
  38. CWheezy

    CWheezy Well-Known Member

    Acidile missed pantheon's ult being changed, it was global.

    This is not surprising because pantheon was removed and whatnot, but still funny
  39. acidile

    acidile Member

    ommggggg pantheon makes me cry.
  40. unentschieden

    unentschieden Member

    Given the announced player education features for Dota2 what would be a better system to get new players "ranked-ready" in a F2P business model? The sentiment sometimes appears to be "new players=bad players, fuck em if they donĀ“t slog through the punishing early matches (because I had to do so too)".
  41. brainof7

    brainof7 Member

    How important are attack speed runes to jungling? I got a bunch because all the jungling guides show ASpeed runes (reds or quints usu) for their rune set-up. I don't notice so much of a difference with them on versus off.

    Also, I understand the difference while farming/ganking while I am the jungler, but I am never quite sure which is the right thing to be doing after my first run. Are these things jungler specific (some should farm whenever possible) or is there a general rule people use when deciding if it is time to farm or look for ganks?

    Also, with Udyr, if I re-cast phoenix stance to get the initial damage part of it, does it reset my three hits for the effect?
  42. Karrius

    Karrius Well-Known Member

    1) Champion dependent. A lot of champions go an armor pen / attack speed combo for jungling. But a lot of the junglers tend to be attack speed based, and it does help with razors and such.

    2) In general, if you can gank, gank. Unfortunately, ganking is hard to do. As a jungler, you NEVER want to just sit around. If you're just standing there in a bush, you're a waste of space and shouldn't be jungling in the first place. Dive in there and get some kills, OR be putting pressure on dragon and the enemy buffs.

    As a reminder: My LoL name is "Karrius". Feel free to add me, just let me know who you are the first time you see me online.
  43. Milskidasith

    Milskidasith Active Member

    If you use Phoenix again, your hit counter still stays, as far as I know.

    The reason aspd runes are better on a lot of jungle champs are because of razors, because many of them have on hit effects (Udyr's phoenix, WW's lifesteal, etc), and because aspd runes are, in theory, better for overall DPS; you're never going to attack constantly in lane, but you will attack constantly when you are jungling.
  44. brainof7

    brainof7 Member

    Karrius, I am pretty sure I already have you, my lol name is kansei. Anyone else can add me if they want.

    I am definitely starting to get frustrated with solo games now, no one wants to ward and you always have someone who thinks they are rambo.
  45. Waterd103

    Waterd103 Well-Known Member

    I did update tier list and will post some comments about some changes (not all changes are going to be noted only those that I feel like it)

    Morde- He is dominating games more and more, It seems one item makes a champ sometimes, and in this case is hextech gunblade. Morde seems really good with it and people now know it. So up in tier 2. Lets see how it goes but I wouldnt be surprised he reach tier 1.
  46. acidile

    acidile Member

    My understanding is that bulky AP mid is becoming pretty popular, with a lot of Gragas/Morde/Bulky Annie/Rumble/Cho. Mord seems pretty strong with this style.
  47. Waterd103

    Waterd103 Well-Known Member

    AS helps a lot. But not with all champs. WW and udyr get a great benefit. Nunu , udyr and WW get effects for doing more attacks. Thats the reasonyou need some armor pen runes tough, you need at least to reach 12 armor pen between runes and masteries.
  48. TheRealBobMan

    TheRealBobMan Member

    Just saw this. Sad that Soraka's heals are nerfed, but it looks like a team of all medics would completely **** **** up now.


    * Starcall
    ** Cooldown reduced to 2.5 from 3
    ** Base damage reduced to 60/85/110/135/160 from 60/90/120/150/180
    ** AP ratio increased to .4 from .25
    ** Mana cost reduced to 35/40/45/50/55 from 40/50/60/70/80
    ** Shred increased to 8/9/10/11/12 from 8/8/8/8/8
    ** Maximum stacks reduced to 10 from 20

    Really fast cooldown, doesn't cost you quite so much mana, and it looks like that's a max of -120 at 10 stacks, which is really REALLY damn high. Add in Abyssal Scepter for another -20 : )

    So... just survive long enough to mess up their resistance and by that point they can't survive no matter what you do. Just keep Soraka alive long enough to do that. Sucks that she can't heal quite so fast anymore, but build her like a tank and watch her knock everything over.

    I don't know the champions very well. Any support characters have good magic damage output?
  49. Waterd103

    Waterd103 Well-Known Member

    Soraka was OP and generated boring gameplay , this move is the right one.
  50. TheRealBobMan

    TheRealBobMan Member

    Actually, this got me wondering. Do Abyssal scepters on different characters stack? So if 2 characters on a team had it, does that net -40 on someone in range of both, or it only applies once for -20?

    I hope it's just -20.

    That said, I want to see a troll build with Wit's End where Soraka throws bananas between Starcalls.

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