Margalis has crossed a line

Discussion in 'Feedback' started by Karrius, Aug 7, 2011.

  1. Karrius

    Karrius Well-Known Member

    Margalis has crossed a line.

    This community is a self-policing one, to some extent. However, Margalis is attempting to turn that against it. Among other things, I've been receiving constant PMs, including stuff such as:

    And then says that people should not be able to post private messages sent to the forums. That won't do.

    Margalis has gone on an anti-intellectual crusade. In a thread that has been proven the developers of the game read, he is arguing that the games flaws should never be pointed out. He argues that Winter doesn't know how to play the game and is misrepresenting his experience by checking what he thinks is Winter's account- when Winter backs up his experience and proves it, and CWheezy does the same method Margalis does to find that there is no proof that Margalis has played the game more than once, Margalis refuses to post proof as to how good HE is, claiming he's within the best players of the game on the forum and refuses to back it up, despite the REAL best providing all their info proving it.

    Margalis has attempting to turn a thread - a thread that the designers of the game actually read - into an unusable wreck, through his nasty bullshit. He's made constant personal attacks, and now he's trying to subvert how this forum actually WORKS - by claiming he should be able to send private messages to harass other posters, to lie and insult them, without these posters knowing or having a chance to defend themselves. I don't know how many other people he's PM'd - just that I've received multiple private messages from him today, and he is trying to convince me that people who I consider friendly and helpful towards me and good to the community and mentally insane - yes, claiming actual mental problems - but he's taken the stance that you should not be allowed to post that he is making these allegations in public.

    Margalis is bad for this community.
  2. WinterAyars

    WinterAyars Member

    Locust is still way better than me. He is (or was) a member of team RS, one of the best teams. He hasn't posted on either thread much lately, though.

    Let me go back a little further, even. Margalis has consistently made bad posts, then when called out on it he resorted to personal attacks. This was a pattern of behavior all throughout the original League of Legends thread. He got into flame wars with everyone, and drove several people away. In addition, he would spread incorrect or misleading info on the thread and, when called on it, would respond with general nastiness. In the last month or two it got to the point where i decided i wasn't going to just let it go anymore and began really calling him out on it, leading to a huge flamewar at the end of that thread.

    He wouldn't give any good reasons to believe what he was saying to believe--despite being repeatedly asked for some--and instead resorted to more trolling and ad hominem attacks. Several posters (myself included) said he didn't know what he was talking about and basically sounded like a pretty low level player who didn't understand the game. He looked up our accounts based on our user names (it's not like we're hiding them or anything) and then, hilariously, called us all bad based on those accounts. He said his account (which is level 1 with like one game played) isn't his real account but fails to provide any evidence this is the case. I continue to pressure him on this and then he starts a new thread.

    After waiting to see whether that thread would shake out or whether there would be another, additional thread (and to see if people would indeed abandon the 500 page monster) i joined in the thread.

    Resetting the situation and making me "lose" the work i had put in backing Margalis into a corner would be great for him and really unfortunate for me, but i had to respect the maneuver. It was my own fault that i let him take the initiative, etc, so whatever. I also noted in the old thread that he had made this clever move and that i was going to move over to the new thread.

    Margalis's response, of course, was to drag that thread into the new thread that he created. I then responded with the same challenge that i had repeatedly put to him, and he exploded violently. The thread is now at least 50% drama.

    As i said: He can say whatever he likes, but i'm going to call him on it.

    In summary: Margalis has consistently made unhelpful or outright harmful posts. He makes bad posts and then responds primarily with personal attacks when challenged on those posts. When i respond to his personal attacks by reiterating my challenge to him he tries to avoid me and instead stir up even more trouble with other members of the forums. We can't expect everyone to read a 500 page thread just to have the proper context on who is the real troll, and Margalis's modus operandi is to stir up trouble (as has been demonstrated over and over again). Margalis is bad for the forums.


    Oh yeah, he is also harassing users in PM and then pretending as though he wants to have a reasonable conversation in PM but the person in question just won't listen (in the main thread) and so on. I don't give a fuck--i've dealt with worse posters than him before, and he doesn't know me well enough to say things that would be really hurtful to me. That doesn't matter, though: harassing people is not okay. I posted some examples in the LoL thread, i could post more here. He continues to PM me so there's no shortage of material.
  3. Margalis

    Margalis Banned

    You are free to do what you want. I just think it's tacky. Am I not allowed to say that? On many forums posting private messages is an instant ban. I didn't say you shouldn't be allowed, I just think it's lame.

    I never said that, and in fact I've pointed out PLENTY of flaws myself. You are just flat out lying here. Don't you think that crosses the line?

    It's cool that you don't like me and want to rally the troops or whatever it is you are trying to do but do so honestly. I say negative things about LoL all the time.

    What? This is just more complete nonsense. What are you doing dude? I'm claiming I'm one of the best players on the forum? No. That simply did not happen. In fact I've made a constant point of making no claims about my own ability, because I don't think "I'm better than you" is a good argument that advances discussion.

    You are either extremely confused or just wholly inventing things.

    I honestly have no idea what you are talking about. You and Winter have attacked me in public, when I attacked you back I did it in private because it's private and frankly nobody else gives a shit. Nothing prevented you from sending me PMs and nothing prevented you from posting my PMs. And you in fact did so and continue to do so. How am I changing how the forum works? I'm like...hacking it or something?

    Again you are allowed to, it's just classless. Also WinterAyars is acting insane.

    Maybe you have some history of mental illness in your family so this struck you the wrong way and if so I apologize. (I don't mean that in jest) But it seems that what you are saying is that it's perfectly ok for you and Winter to continually attack me in public but when I send you private PMs that's somehow much more terrible.

    The reason I send PMs is I am tired of the flaming ruining the LoL threads. This spat is basically only between Winter and myself with you cheering winter on, and at this point it has basically nothing to do with LoL any more. Why should that go in a LoL thread?
  4. Margalis

    Margalis Banned

    So then stop harassing me?

    I'm extremely confused why this distinction of you constantly flaming me in public while I flame you in private somehow gives you the moral high ground. You can't constantly harass people then complain about harassment, which is exactly what you are doing. In the past 24 hours you've written about 5 solid pages of text attacking me.

    I created a new thread, was perfectly polite, and you attacked me again. And now the two of you create yet another thread to attack me some more! Here is a novel idea: maybe if you stop attacking me with literally pages and pages of text I'll stop "harassing" you back. Crazy I know!

    You make it sound like this is some epic military confrontation. It's a stupid flame war that serves no purpose. I didn't make any maneuver. I simply decided to stop responding to you since all you were only trolling. I created a new thread because -Y- suggested it because the old thread was having technical problems.

    This is not some Sherlock vs. Moriarty struggle. We were not jousting, then you had me in a corner but then I pulled a clever ruse! You've said what you wanted to say probably 10 times by now. Can we be done?

    Your chronology is completely wrong and I would assume that's intentional, but really want is the point of re-iterating this stuff YET AGAIN? Who are you even talking to? My god, you just posted an epic screed about this in the LoL thread. Are you just going to spam this stuff forever in every forum?

    I'm not trying to hurt you. All I'm trying to do, which I think is made abundantly clear in the PMs I sent you, is to get you to STOP RUINING LOL THREADS. That is the main point off basically every PM I sent you and every PM I sent Karrius. This is not some good vs. evil Luke vs. Darth Vader shit. It's just about you constantly spamming irrelevant bullshit in every LOL forum when everyone is sick of it.

    I'm bad for the community? You have now ruined two threads and you did it completely on purpose, to prove some sort of bizarre point that matters only to you. And furthermore you are holding everyone hostage, threatening to ruin every LoL thread unless they give in to your whims.

    Discussion on the topic of LoL has died off as a direct result of your constant outbursts. There was a thriving discussion around LoL until you went berserk.

    I have literally BEGGED YOU to stop ruining LoL threads. As have others - yet you persist. Then you have the nerve to say that I'm bad for discussion even as everyone is asking you to stop posting your endless tirades. Get real.
  5. Karrius

    Karrius Well-Known Member

    You're sending private messages to other people to attempt to get them to turn against others. Which would be fine, EXCEPT for when you think it's wrong to post them. In short; "I have a right to lie about you to others; you don't have a right to know about it."

    You could have very well responded to the facts Winter posted about your behavior and how trollish it is, but you chose not to. Instead, you decided to attack him in a place where he could not respond, and then complained when he was given a chance TO respond.
  6. Karrius

    Karrius Well-Known Member

    Citation needed. YOU are the one who has said you'll continue attacking people and flaming unless they delete posts you don't like.

    From you:

  7. Margalis

    Margalis Banned

    I think you are missing the fundamental point: you and Winter appear to have ZERO respect for everyone on this site other than yourselves.

    Do you want to know why I stopped publicly responding to Winter? It's because NOBODY GIVES A SHIT. Everyone else is tired of this.

    It takes some extreme arrogance to believe that everyone on these forums is incredibly invested in this drama and is at the edge of their seats just waiting for me. People are openly complaining in the LoL thread. And they aren't saying "Margalis is bad we hate Margalis." What they are saying is that this shit is stupid and THEY WANT TO TALK ABOUT LEAGUE OF LEGENDS.

    What you are doing is incredibly disrespectful to everyone. You are making it absolutely impossible for anyone to talk about League of Legends because you want the discussion to only be about you, me and Winter.

    But the bigger point is that, and I cannot stress this enough:

    I respond via Private Message because everyone is SICK OF THIS SHIT. I have a small amount of respect for the wishes of people who want you two to stop subjecting them to this crap. This endless stream of meaningless forum drama you insist on prolonging even though EVERYONE IS ASKING YOU TO SHUT UP.

    I'm not going to respond to the "facts" Winter posted when his "facts" are lies that relate to an irrelevant argument that nobody cares about. I specifically told him that I was NEVER going to respond to his facts because he was straight up trolling.

    So for the love of god - STOP RUINING THE LOL THREADS. For fuck's sake. You are not the two most important people in the universe! show some basic respect for everyone else. This entire forum is not about you are your personal grudges. What gives you the right to ruin every thread? Tell me please!

    We agreed that I would only insult someone if they insulted me first - then Winter immediately attacked me yet again! But I didn't flame anyway because this crap you two are pulling has gone on for far too long already. Even though we just agreed that it was perfectly within my rights.

    Meanwhile WinterAyars has said a half-dozen times that if I act up he will launch into another tirade - when it's clear that by "act up" he means "posts anything."

    You two have threatened to ruin threads over this and then have done so - twice. Everyone is asking you to stop. So just stop?

    I don't get why this is such a difficult concept: NOBODY CARES. There is no need to constantly pollute multiple threads with this crap.

    This is foolishness. We've already seen that you agree to something and then reneg on it literally 10 minutes later. If I give you citations what will you do exactly? Why would I negotiate with someone who literally just lied to me? You and Winter have threatened to derail the thread over and over again, that's in fact MOST of what you've posted about LoL recently.

    I tried to call a truce and get everyone to behave and you, not me, YOU, start this shit again NOT TEN FUCKING MINUTES AFTER WE JUST AGREED TO STOP.

    I'm sorry but you cannot threaten to ruin every LoL thread, proceed to do exactly that, then say that I am bad for the community when you are purposely trying to DESTROY ALL ON TOPIC DISCUSSION so you can instead talk about your pet issues.

    Everyone wants you to stop. This is so sad! All people want to do is talk about LoL in the LoL thread. SO LET THEM.
  8. Margalis

    Margalis Banned

    By the way let me make one thing 100% clear:

    For you to claim that it's perfectly alright for you and Winter to flame in every LoL thread and purposely destroy all discussion there but it's not ok for me to send you a private messages flaming you and asking you to stop ruining threads is just laughable.

    You cannot gain the moral high ground by ruining discussion for everyone. You two are a complete blight on LoL discussions.

    You don't even fucking talk about LoL! All you do is flame. Before I begged you repeatedly to actually say something on topic your previous 8 or so posts in the LoL thread were pure flaming.

    You literally have nothing to say about LoL, you ONLY TROLL. But I'm bad for the community? How can I be worse than someone who does nothing but troll?

    Edit: by the way this forum is supposed to be about site feedback, features and things like that. Yet you've decided to infect it with this crazed vendetta of yours as well. Is there a single forum or thread that you won't turn into this irrelevant bitch fest? You've ruined two league of legends threads but apparently that's not enough, now you need another thread that just re-iterates the same thing again...come on! Jesus Christ if you two are going to rant and rave about this shit forever at least pick one place to do it instead of shitting everywhere.
  9. TheRealBobMan

    TheRealBobMan Member

    I don't know dude. I asked a question in there and some time later you posted but completely ignored my question. I would think that if you cared about the discussion and wanted to stop the arguments, you would have just answered my question instead of continuing to talk about that drama stuff.

    You're answering questions now, which is good, but it seems like you can't let go or something.
  10. Margalis

    Margalis Banned

    You know I'm only human. I have two people attacking me across three different threads. It's a little hard to never respond.

    I mean we just brokered an agreement to be civil and they start the same shit again not 10 minutes later. They couldn't hold out for more than ten minutes!

    Even after Winter posted his tremendously long screed I didn't flame him though. I'm trying. But honestly when someone spends a fucking hour typing up a personal attack against you while everyone is begging them to just shut up already it's a little hard to pay zero attention to it.
  11. ryzol

    ryzol Member

  12. Polari

    Polari Well-Known Member

    I don't play LoL, I just read the thread, and I am amused. Particularly, I found a certain interesting question that somehow has slipped by unnoticed for a while now, and which I've quoted below. I wonder if Margalis could give us an answer?

  13. Margalis

    Margalis Banned

    Can you explain why that question is at all relevant?

    Bonus questions: Do you know what the phrase "put up or shut up means?" If so can you explain how it makes sense in this context?

    It's actually two threads, one of which is 500 pages long. I'm going to go out on a very sturdy limb and assume you didn't read that one. Not that you should but that is where the argument started.
  14. Polari

    Polari Well-Known Member

    I read the recent one and the last couple of pages of the original. Nice assumptions though. Now that you specifically asked, I went back and read a bit more to get back to the point where this specific argument originated.

    I brought up that question because I find it a great example of what was happening in those threads.

    You insult other members and call them out to prove their skill
    Winter responds with what sound like pretty solid accomplishments to me
    You belittle him and state that he's "basically at your level" while providing no real information about yourself

    You demand everyone else to prove themselves, and when they do and the same of you, you dodge. When the same short, simple question is repeated, you dodge some more. When it appears again in a third thread, you still dodge. Which side do you think anyone's going to take seriously here?

    I thought I'd look for a succint dictionary dictionary definition to provide for you, and found it in the very first google hit for the phrase, which makes me very puzzled at how you didn't manage this yourself. In this context, Winter is asking you to either comply to the same requests you presented to him (answer the question about your skill and accomplishments), or shut up. It seems to me that you've done neither.
  15. Margalis

    Margalis Banned

    No, this is false. I'm not sure why you would enter a thread like this just to immediately lie.

    I did not ask "everyone else" to prove themselves. I asked two specific people for their credentials for a specific reason. How good they are at the game is relevant because it was the crux of their arguments.

    CWheezy and Winter used a debate tactic called Argument from Authority. In this case they were the authority. From wikipedia:

    They made their own skill directly relevant. And did so in rude matter I might add, so please spare me complaints about how I insulted them. In fact both CWheezy and Winter have been quite rude to a number of people in that thread.

    You don't appear to know what the phrase "put up or shut up" means because your explanation does not make sense. Perhaps you are not a native English speaker? (I don't mean that as an insult) It does not mean "you asked me a question so now you have to answer it too for some reason!!" (That would actually be "turnabout is fair play" which is a completely different expression.)

    I never made any claim about my skill level that I need to back up. They key point is actually on one of those posts you linked to:

    Questioning someone's expertise is completely fair when it is the crux of their argument. In fact according to Wikipedia there are only two ways to attack that argument and the other one is not really possible in this situation. (There is no way for me to evaluate the expert consensus)

    If you've read the threads you'd know that most people are not interested in taking sides and just don't want to be subjected to this stuff any more. Or did you not notice that after WinterAyars posted his devastating final attack on me everyone completely ignored it?

    Once we all pick sides what happens? An orgy with side A on top? Sounds hot.
  16. Polari

    Polari Well-Known Member

    Yeah sure, I wasn't too careful about my exact words and what you're saying is indeed correct. I don't see this making a huge difference though.

    Argument from Authority doesn't exactly match here. To quote that same Wikipedia page,

    In our case, the argument is that understanding the reasoning for the original claim requires a certain level of competence on the subject matter, and if the person you're trying to explain this thing to is not on that level, it's pointless to go on. What matters here isn't the absolute skill level of the one making the argument, but the difference between the players involved. It could be a great player trying to explain something to a mediocre one, or a mediocre player explaining something to a terrible one. Thus it's also relevant to know the skill level of the one questioning the argument.

    Then again, seeing that this same question has been repeated multiple times, if this really was the reason you've been dodging, I don't understand why you wouldn't have explained it much earlier. Also, in demanding that Winter and CWheezy proved their skill, there's an implicit assumption that given it's high enough, you'd accept the argument. It's trivially easy to just demand someone to state their skill level without stating how high it would need to be to suffice, and then dismiss them regardless of what they say. To me it looks like you've done exactly this. If Winter's accomplishments aren't enough to satisfy you, what would be?

    I've seen a couple of people wishing you'd both shut up, and several people wishing you specifically would shut up. Winter's description in the #2 post of this thread matches this. I mean, in a hypothetical scenario where some user was constantly flaming and making bullshit claims, how would you deal with it? Call him on it as long as he keeps doing it? Ignore him and give every new reader the impression that there's nothing wrong with what he's saying?
  17. Sotek

    Sotek Well-Known Member

    stay classy, marg. stay classy.
  18. WinterAyars

    WinterAyars Member

    Generally speaking, there's no value in responding to you here. However, i just want to make a note that the actual chonology is there for anyone to see, it's just a lot of reading. Both the old and the new threads are available. If anyone has any doubts they can read for themselves without too much difficulty. It's not the full scope of Margalis's scumbaggery, but it's the most recent confrontation. You don't have to take either of our words about this.

    In addition to that, he lied about the content of the messages, saying that you (or whoever it was) were mis-representing his PMs. When excerpted PMs were posted he changed his story, of course.

    And again here, we have Margalis playing the victim card. He spent the better part of a five hundred page thread antagonizing people, attacking people, and harassing people. When someone (that is to say: when i) finally got tired of it and forced an actual confrontation he tried to weasel out of it, then pretended as though he's just some innocent victim being attacked without provocation. This is not reasonable behavior.

    He has made a good post in the League of Legends thread. (The original one.) Okay probably more than just one, but certainly not many. I remember it quite distinctly because i was pretty surprised at how good it was. That doesn't excuse his generally miserable and toxic behavior.

    Also, Polari: thank you for linking that so that i don't have to.
  19. Margalis

    Margalis Banned

    You too bro.

    Go away. Don't you have a witch hunt thread that needs your valuable input?

    Neither is obsessing over this and letting it take over your life and continuing to shit all over the LoL thread even as everyone is begging you to stop. -Y- very specifically asked you not to do some post recap so what do you do? Giant recap post.

    Smart. Everyone is tired of your trolling. All they are asking is that you stop. Why do you refuse? You've killed two LoL threads already!
  20. Margalis

    Margalis Banned

    So basically you lied. Cool. At least you admit it.

    Who would I explain it to? I put Winter on ignore and stopped responding to him after he went bonkers. Plus I know not answering it drives him crazy, so what's my motivation for answering? To give him satisfaction? The only person repeating that question has been Winter (and maybe his buddy Karrius), it's not like everyone else is dying to know or it's at all relevant. Why have I been refusing to answer a question from a guy who just constantly trolls for attention....hmmm...

    Do you think if I had answered the question Winters would finally have shut up? I'm guessing he probably would not have and would have used any response as an excuse to keep flaming.

    Honestly when I looked up their account info I was half expecting to see that they were really good and that I'd have to come back to the LoL thread and say "welp, actually they are just a lot better, so I guess 'you're bad' kind of works." I was a little shocked to see Winter at 1400 elo. Actually I was a lot shocked. That's basically slightly above average. For someone who claims to be an expert in all things MOBA that's pretty terrible.

    Yes, what do we do about Winter? Great question! He spews bullshit, he flames, and he never shuts up. It's a real problem.
  21. WinterAyars

    WinterAyars Member

    I just want to make a note here because Margalis has said this several times, but let me note: the entirety of Margalis's argument that i'm a "bad player" is due to my ranking, which is not particularly high. I hate even discussing his nonsense because the argument is pure distraction and pretty silly, but let me explain (yet another reason) why he's full of shit: when ranked was first released, i played for a while but then quit. Draft mode is great, but the trolling/raging/etc was just too miserable. (Now those ragers are filtering back into normal games--might be time to start up ranked again...)

    When i played i topped out around 1500 ranking. That's not very good right now (#1 is 2550 right at the moment) but at the time #1 was around 1700-1800. In other words, there was elo inflation. If you extrapolate upwards (which is not necessarily safe) then, were i playing "for real" today, i would be around 2k. Of course, i've also got a 65% win rate so likely i would be even higher than that. When ranked was new, i was top 500. (I was also consistently in or near top 500 in beta, and my normal queue rating has been well into top 500 whenever the normal queue rankings have leaked out. Currently i'm like top 25k ranked and losing spots due to elo inflation, which is not particularly impressive. Current top 500 starts in the 1900s.) I stopped playing and thus my ranking hasn't gone up, while everyone else's has. That means, effectively, as a measure of my skill my ranking is not very useful. I say this not as though it were evidence i am a strong player, but to show that Margalis is (of course) using the wrong metrics and ignoring the correct ones.

    I've never taken ranked particularly seriously. (Well, that's not true--my LoL team at one point did take a shot at the 5v5 ladder, resulting in my top 5v5 rank there.) The top rated players are not on the teams that did the best at Dreamhack (although many did attend), and top rated players are not always the people who take high spots in tournaments. In games that really count, my actual record is much better. (Which i elaborated on in the thread, which was of course completely ignored in favor of additional trolling out of Margalis.) In tournaments and leagues i have done consistently well and have earned some level of recognition, though perhaps not so much respect, from higher level players.

    The League thread did have strong players with high rankings. Uthgar was #1 ranked for a while and his team was probably the strongest, took #2 in the CA tournament, beating out AoN. (Also the tournament that established Roku. AoN was Reginald's old team) Locust is currently a powerful player and has also been #1 ranked. His team (RS) attended Dreamhack and did pretty well. They might be refocusing their efforts, so they could become even stronger in the future. WaterD and CWheezy (both favorite targets of Margalis's hate) have been in the top 100-300 at various points and have taken ranked more seriously, although i don't think either of them have taken tournament play more seriously.

    Players like Locust and (in the past) Uthgar are (were) very strong and at the top of the game.

    Margalis, as near as anyone can tell, does not play this game and furthermore: does not tend to engage in actual discussion. He picks one detail out that sort of supports his point if you look at it from the right perspective, then repeats it until people believe it. Again, this is not reasonable behavior.
  22. Margalis

    Margalis Banned

    No, my argument is not that you are a "bad player", it's that you are a slightly above average player. Which is exactly what you are by the objective measure we have.

    You are really looking under single rock to try to find some explanation for how you are totally way better than you obviously are. You play better in games that count. Sure. That's not at all convenient or unmeasurable.

    I win 100% of the games I try hard in. I'm the best! You seem so completely devastated and utterly destroyed by the fact that I just looked up your elo, and not once have you admitted that "you're bad" sort of invited that and was not a valuable contribution to the discussion.

    Yeah that is true, when I said that nobody in the thread had credentials I forgot those guys and later conceded that. Obviously Locust is very good, nobody is denying that. However you are not Locust so I'm not sure how using your name and his in the same sentence magically makes you better.

    But that exactly describes yourself.

    You constantly claim that you've stopped playing LoL - even though that never stops you from arguing with people who still do. You try to browbeat people into submission, use ad hominem attacks, and are generally extremely unpleasant and unreceptive to anyone you dares disagree with you. You constantly twist and misrepresent arguments so that you can "win" rather than honestly engaging with the subject matter. When someone makes an argument that stumps you you engage in personal attacks.

    You are are condescending and dismissive as a rule except to people who immediately bow down to your imagined authority. You have delusions of grandeur and take it upon yourself to play thread cop and decide who has the right to participate in any given discussion. You are egotistical and controlling.

    And of course you believe that it is perfectly in your right to ruin multiple LoL threads, despite the protests of people asking you to stop, to prove some sort of quixotic point. You seem to believe that you are the center of everyone's universe and every single person on is endlessly fascinated by a moronic flame war that you choose to constantly stoke merely to whore for attention.

    So yeah. Are we done here? How many more threads are you going to fill with your endless BS. This is three and counting. Is there some upper limit here? 5? 10? At some point are you going to stop spamming thread after thread with this egotastic masturbation?

    The only thing you use for is trolling. If that is hyperbole it's very slight. You produced literally pages and pages and pages of troll posts and you seem to have no intention of stopping. In the LoL thread you wrote a giant screed attacking me after things had settled down and everyone was willing to move on and I didn't attack you back. I was big enough to let you get the last digs in. But even that wasn't enough, now you're still just trolling.

    You've been asked by many different people to stop your constant trolling and you completely disrespect and ignore their requests. That takes real arrogance. And the people asking you to stop are not part of my clique, they aren't my "defenders" - they are just people who want to talk about LoL without being subjected to your unending insane rants.

    All anyone wants is for you to shut up already and stop posting the exact same crap over and over again in now three different threads.

    This is hilarious coming from you. That's what you've been doing for weeks now. Repeating the exact some screed over and over again even though people keep asking you to shut up and telling you that they don't care. In one League of Legends thread you even admitted that you were going to straight up copy and paste your argument into another one. And you accuse me of being repetitive?

    LoL. Reality to Winter, come in please!

    Dear god I have been begging you to stop ruining LoL threads with this endless crap. Don't you see how disrespectful it is to everyone else and how arrogant you have to be to constantly subject everyone to it against their wishes?
  23. Sotek

    Sotek Well-Known Member

    by the way, Margalis, when you claim you put someone on ignore then immediately respond to their posts, you are revealing yourself as a liar.

    maybe stop doing that?
  24. Margalis

    Margalis Banned


    You do know there is a "view post" button right? I guess you didn't! Knowledge is a wonderful thing. Sick burn though dude!

    I respond to Winter here because this discussion is specifically about me and him. I don't respond or read his posts in the LoL threads because I don't want to contribute to his off-topic flaming.

    Yeah, you just got owned.
  25. Karrius

    Karrius Well-Known Member

    More PMs while I was sleeping.

    I'm curious - what post did I make that I started trolling that was made "LITERALLY WEEKS" ago? Surely Margalis can point to a post that I made that was trolling literal weeks ago, right? And he can agree that there will be NO other posts I made in between that that are not trolling?

    Or is he using stupid hyperbole and lies?


    Note: This is coming from the guy who's claiming Winter is mentally unbalanced.
  26. jelyman

    jelyman Active Member

    Ok so I don't play LoL so I have never posted in The threads but since it was quite a popular thread so I have spent time reading them and obviously encountered this stuff.

    It tells me a lot when you call someone out got telling a lie based on the use of the word "everyone" when you did it yourself. Surely evyone is not begging them to stop. So by your own standards you also are a liar and no one should listen to anything you have to say. What value are the opinions a liar and hypocrite? Its pretty clear to see a number of the contradictions you make, and how you ignore requests or treat others as totally irrelevant. Anyway I doubt this will reap any benefit but oh well.

    Everyone have a nice day. :)
  27. Karrius

    Karrius Well-Known Member

    Honestly, it's appreciated, just to show how much crap his "everyone" is. The LoL threads were fine until he started his bullshit, and I just want a return to that.
  28. Margalis

    Margalis Banned

    Ha ha wow, someone actually said something smart in this thread.

    Bravo. I mean that in all seriousness.

    It appear that Polari, Winter, Karrius, Sotek and I are all liars who should not be listened to - you got us. I'm perfectly happy with that!
  29. Margalis

    Margalis Banned

    No, you don't. If you did you'd stop your trolling.

    Do you not remember what JUST happened? We agreed that everyone would remain calm and say nothing nasty. You agreed to attack whoever broke that rule first. Then, not 10 minutes later, Winter completely laid into me and your response was to compliment him and then create this thread so you two could attack me some more.

    The only thing preventing us from talking about LoL is is you and Winter constantly disrupting it. I can't wait for you and him to derail the thread yet again and try to blame me.

    Should I make a list of people who've asked you to stop trolling? And how long does it have to be for you to stop? Off the top of my head at least 3 people in that thread other than myself asked you to stop with the trolls, and of course you and Winter ignored them all.

    In the first LoL thread you were plotting with Winter to destroy the next one. So sorry, you don't get to pretend that you want to return to the good old days. I created a new thread and specifically asked people to be civil. You and Winter trolled. We agreed to stop for the good of the thread and move on. You and Winter trolled again. Most of your posts in the LoL threads have been pure troll posts and you don't appear to have any real interest in talking about LoL.

    Stop fucking trolling the LoL threads and this will instantly stop. You've had that power all along, you've just never bothered to use it.
  30. Karrius

    Karrius Well-Known Member

    Dude - I am not posting any arguments in the fucking LoL thread. I made a new thread for a REASON - so the LoL thread wouldn't be cluttered up. Can you not see that?

    How can I be trolling the LoL thread if I'm only posting arguments in THIS thread?

    And Margalis - far more people want you to stop posting than me. You really should not go that route.
  31. Margalis

    Margalis Banned

    Am I posting arguments in the LoL thread? Check it. I asked you and Winter to create a new thread ages ago. So...congrats on your awesome idea? How many times did I ask you two to create a new thread and stop fucking up that one?

    You've gone a whole 18 hours without trolling that thread. Uh....yay? Go you!

    By the way not only did you insult me in those threads but you also attacked anyone who ever agreed with me - which includes -Y-, unscheidwhatever and a bunch of other people who are generally polite and productive.

    Cool story. This isn't really a popularity contest though. I'm going to ask you again: please stop trolling the LoL thread, and stop encouraging Winter to do so. You already promised to do that once and then didn't. Is the second time the charm?

    All you have to do is continue to not troll. Can you and Winter do that? I suspect that you can't (there really isn't any reason to believe otherwise, since most of your LoL posts are troll posts) but I'm hoping you can.

    I guess the fact that you haven't trolled it for less than a day is a good start. Baby steps!
  32. WinterAyars

    WinterAyars Member

    You agreed to that. I didn't say a damn thing. Then i posted something that i had been writing and you flipped out. You'll notice (or rather, Margalis won't but non-psychotic people will) that i haven't said anything in that thread since. It's been entirely Margalis arguing with his own shadow (and, indeed, other posters on the thread who wish he would go away).
  33. Margalis

    Margalis Banned

    How exactly did I "flip out?" Lol? I basically ignored what you said. I'm not arguing with anyone in that thread. In case you didn't notice basically nobody responded to your insane ramblings - they just ignored the crazy person hoping he would go away.

    You seem very confused. There is no argument happening in that thread now and the reason is that I chose not to respond to you even after you tried to bait me again.

    If I had responded to your giant moronic wall of vomit the argument would still be going but I'm the bigger man.(Also I'm better at LoL) You've done everything in your power to keep the argument going, spanning it across three threads. Every time it dies down you lash out again.

    Are you saying you are finally done? You are finally, after many weeks, going to stop 'sperging out and ruining every LoL thread.

    I hope so! Again I have my doubts but I'd love to be proven wrong. Because I would like nothing more than for to stop your endless trolls and I'm not alone. The last person to "flip out" in that thread was you. What a shock! I fully expect you will flip out again in a matter of hours since that's kind of what you do but if you are promising to shape up and mean it that's cool. Although I think you might have killed that thread with your trolling, we'll have to see.
  34. Sotek

    Sotek Well-Known Member

    I am owned because I am trolling by engaging in off-topic posting.

    how terrible.

    ... wait that's not trolling at all??

    also oh god, how do I make him stop spamming me with PMs?
  35. Margalis

    Margalis Banned

    Don't you have a witch hunt thread to post in?

    Double owned.
  36. WinterAyars

    WinterAyars Member

    You aren't being let off the hook. Some of the people sick of the bullshit talked me into getting you banned instead. It's just incredibly hard to do on this forum so it's probably going to take a while.
  37. Margalis

    Margalis Banned

    Cool. I'm super scared.

    So are you going to stop trolling? It's a simple yes or no question. Why can't you just say yes? You need to cling to the right to begin spontaneously trolling again at any time?
  38. KaiDASH

    KaiDASH Well-Known Member

    You started this by questioning the authority of WinterAyars by suggesting his personal skill did not permit him to say what he was saying with any amount of legitimacy. When WinterAyars responded with his accomplishments (Which in all fairness, are no small feat - One does not have to be in the top 0.5% of the playerbase to be considered great) you ignored the major ones (Tourney placements) and leaped on the dated auxiliary accomplishments (Such as his ranking in the beta). When this was pointed out, you simply stuck to your guns that WinterAyars is nothing more than an (At best) above average player, when in reality he is much better than that.

    In the original debate (RE: Pantheon nerf) it was pretty clear that both unentschieden and yourself had little to no clue about how Pantheon was actually to be played (or how to play against Pantheon) and having this pointed this out is somehow not correct?

    Additionally, you were the one who brought the argument into the new LoL thread with this post, which is such blatant baiting it isn't even funny. You have ZERO high ground here and to see you posting as if you do is quite frankly, disgusting.
  39. Loot Pile

    Loot Pile New Member

    I have no idea why I'm contributing to this, but I recall a post prior to the one you linked to where someone accused Margalis of starting the new thread solely out of the desire to dodge the argument he was losing in the previous one. Margalis's post was in response to that accusation. The reason it looks like he's bringing up the drama in the old thread unprovoked is because the preceding post appears to have been deleted; maybe the author had second thoughts about continuing the argument in another thread. So, Margalis may or may not be a jerkwad, but if the post you're referring to remained in the context it was originally made, I don't think it would look as bad as it does to you now.

    EDIT: Derp, I'm an idiot. I was thinking of this post and the one following it, and I guess since I was reading both threads at the time I just remembered it being in the new one. I don't know how I missed that when I checked before posting, but I apologize for making a baseless accusation.
  40. WinterAyars

    WinterAyars Member

    It wasn't deleted. The post was in a different thread, and was taken out of context (sort of) by Margalis. I'm sorry, but i must request people actually read at least the final few pages of the previous LoL post to get some sort of context. We can't require people read 500 pages just to contribute to the LoL thread, but in this one you really should. There was quite a bit of back and forth in the original thread. Margalis created a new one, then as soon as i posted in the new thread attacked me. Not that it was unexpected, i knew even before i posted that he was going to attack me the very next post. But even so, that's what he decided to do.

    Nothing was deleted from that thread. Margalis could have posted in the original thread same as anyone else, but he chose not to. Instead, he chose to drag previous drama into that thread and then pretend i was the one who did it.
  41. Margalis

    Margalis Banned

    No, it started when Ayars and CWheezy personally attacked unentschieden.

    Even if that is true that gives people the right to personally attack unentschieden?

    I'm curious why it's ok for Winter and CWheezy to launch into personal attacks when they disagree with someone but it's not ok for someone to point out logical fallacies in their argument. So your position is...personal attacks are ok as long as they aren't against Winter?

    Got it! Cool. That's a position that should definitely be carefully considered, thanks for that valuable contribution!
  42. Sotek

    Sotek Well-Known Member

    I'm sure you can link to the posts in which those attacks occurred, right, Margalis?
  43. Margalis

    Margalis Banned

    It's funny how multiple people remember Winter editing or deleting posts. Now maybe that's because he actually did or maybe it's because people were reading both threads at once and they kind of got mixed together, but two people have independently stated that.

    Furthermore in the old thread that you keep asking people to read on the very last page Karrius is stating that he will disrupt any LoL thread I post in or at least asking you and others to do so. So here I have created a new thread and people in the old thread are planning to sabotage it. You already have your control C/V lined up and Karrius is goading you into starting shit.

    In addition you state:

    So here you seem to be saying that when I post in the new thread you will copy and paste shit from the old thread. At that point you had not said what "something" is, you are literally saying that you will wait for me to post and then start flaming.

    Then you make a post that multiple remember you deleting, which maybe did not happen depending on who you ask, then un, not me, un brings up stuff from the old thread that I wasn't even reading at that point. (Because it wouldn't open, which is why I created the new thread) I don't think I read the last few posts of the old LoL thread because I COULD NOT OPEN IT. I was responding to Un. I didn't attack anyone, I didn't name names. Un said something about you accusing me of trying to dodge and I said that wasn't true and anyone who felt otherwise should PM me.

    Then you launch your "zero fucking bullshit" tirade directly after I said we should take this argument to PMs and leave the poor people who want to talk about LoL alone.
  44. Margalis

    Margalis Banned

    I actually don't know how to link to specific posts.

    If I do link to posts of CWheezy and Winter personally attacking un (after you explain how lol) what happens? Do you leave the site forever? Do you concede and leave this thread? Or do you just keep trolling?

    Give me a reason. So far any time I respond to anything it's just an excuse to troll further. So what's my incentive? The reason I should do what you ask you can troll?
  45. Sotek

    Sotek Well-Known Member

    you click the number on the post to get a direct link, then you link it.

    And then I will admit I was wrong! If, of course, they really are unprovoked personal attacks and were not, for instance, simple retaliation, or a declaration of lack of authority in response to an argument from authority, or whatnot.
  46. Margalis

    Margalis Banned

    Hedge much? You just moved the goalposts 500 yards. We both know that any personal attack on this site could be spun as retaliation. I've just been retaliating against Winter this whole time!

    You asked for attacks, now you are adding a bunch of stipulations that give you ten miles of wiggle room. No thanks. I guess this is your way of admitting that I can easily find what you asked for.

    Owned thrice.

    PS: Don't you have a witch hunt thread to post in?
  47. WinterAyars

    WinterAyars Member

    It was pretty clear neither of you had the faintest idea how Pantheon worked in the past, yet you were continuing to argue complete and utter nonsense, despite having this repeatedly explained to you by several other forum members. Ignorance is not evil in and of itself. Aggressively maintaining your ignorance when people attempt to help you, however, is.
  48. Sotek

    Sotek Well-Known Member

    Margalis, we both know the game you're playing with trying to trap people into statements. I mean, I know you know I know the game since you've refused such a trap I offered earlier. It's not gonna go anywhere, and it's blatantly obvious to anyone watching what's going on.

    And of course, not everything can be spun as retaliation, but you already know that!

    The most obvious way that it's not possible is if someone's first post is blatantly unoffensive then they get attacked.

    So, yeah, you're not gonna dig 'em up because if they even exist, they aren't what you're making them out to be.

    But we both knew that already too.

    ps: nope, all the witch hunt threads are currently over. it's a sadgedy. :(
  49. Margalis

    Margalis Banned

    Of course it can, unless you are going to read the entire post history of everyone involved as well as their PMs.

    I can link you to posts where CWheezy and Winter made ad hominem attacks against un, adopted a generally nasty and condescending tone and acted like assholes to a poster who is probably one of the most mild-mannered in the LoL thread.

    But we both know that if I do that you will find some post at some point earlier where un said something mildly sarcastic and therefore he totally deserved it. That nature of those discussions is that there is sarcasm and snark involved from all sides.

    You are lowering the bar here where an insult is completely justified unless the person being insulted has been a perfect angel throughout their entire history here. Which of course means that I am justified in insulting Winter, he is justified in insulting me, etc.

    Edit: And now Winter himself is admitting that he did personally attack Un. (But he totally had a good excuse - Un disagreed with him!) So like I said, the point of this thread is that Winter and Karrius can attack whoever they want for whatever reason but nobody can attack them. What a self-righteous clown this guy is. So after crying for 10 or so pages across 3 threads that I insulted him Winter admits that he attacked Un but that's totally different because SOMEONE ON THE INTERNET WAS WRONG!

  50. KaiDASH

    KaiDASH Well-Known Member

    if an 'attack' as mild as 'you are a bad player' on someone who isn't you AND isn't making a scene out of it is enough to make you come out, all guns blazing, then you probably aren't suited at all to participating in forum discussions.

    They weren't necessarily in the right with how they went about the debate, but you don't put out a candle with a flamethrower.


    So no, they were not going to hound you with issues from the old thread in the new one (Karrius was avoiding the new thread entirely, Winter had already posted once with ontopic content), they would only bring it up if you did first. For someone who claims to not want to argue in public, you sure give yourself every opportunity to do exactly that.

    Saying that they were planning to jack the thread outright is misrepresenting what was actually going on, since Winter stated he'd only do it if baited, and Karrius didn't plan anything (He just made a suggestion to Winter - This is very different from making PLANS to jack the thread).

    You're very fond of word games, but you aren't half as clever as you think you are. The only people you're convincing are those who have zero idea about what is going on (so, nobody).

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