MBTI considered meaningless (previously « MBTI - Have You Changed? »)

Discussion in 'Psychology' started by Xom, Aug 29, 2009.

  1. Maris

    Maris Member

    I know for sure i am EXTP
    im pretty sure i am ENTP after reading the descriptions of it. but i got put into ESTP

    my score
    E-44%
    S-1% (im pretty sure im N)
    T-75%
    P-35%
  2. Gon

    Gon Active Member

    ENFP myself.

    Anyway, the one thing I didn't see much addressed in this thread is the effect of context. As in, going back to what the original poster was saying about change... It's hard to tell if you've really changed, or if you've just been put into a life situation that has shaped your personality in certain ways.

    These days I'm far more introverted than I used to be, but I blame that on context and not a personality change.
  3. I'm bitter. Both questionnaires think I'm a hipster.
  4. Gon

    Gon Active Member

    Well it's not perfect, but it does give somewhat meaningful results and breaks down personality into various factors that people can easily digest and understand.

    That's not so bad.
  5. SW

    SW Active Member

    Okay, its kind of strange to revisit old arguments with new information.

    Rereading the thread had me integrate the following idea:
    http://www.overcomingbias.com/2010/06/near-far-summary.html
    into what is meant by the sensing-intuitive scale in MBTI. Sensing is near while intuitive is far.

    I'm not sure if it fits exactly as a "personality trait" while it is a psychological mode of operation (actually I'd say is more of an associative network?). I suppose that is why it doesn't show up in factor analysis based tests like OCEAN, since people likely have different frames for different activities so they do not have strong self correlation. Nontheless the near-far idea does have psychological importance thus "feels right" to be included in the exam nonetheless.

    Now, I haven't developed my understanding about nearfar to have a comprehensive hypothesis about how all this integrates, but it is exciting to find connections in different ideas to explore. It really does point to an way into clarifying the S-N scale that have been confusing me for a while, as can be seen in earlier posts.
    --
    So yeah I've changed :p
  6. Majidah

    Majidah Well-Known Member

    So do horoscopes. They have the same level of empirical support. Not that I'm saying horoscopes are bad, but people should be honest about what the tests are doing: providing some vague adjectives which may or may not apply to you, so you can recognize the accurate ones and ignore the inaccurate ones. It's helping you describe yourself to other people, it's a thesaurus, not a test for something you didn't know about yourself.
  7. Oni

    Oni Active Member

    Indeed a tool for personality description. My following results I expected in being conditioned by rich engineering education and being naturally shy. I took the test 3 times for a mean.

    INTJ; 78% Introvert; 62% intuitive; 75% thinking; 67% judging.

    Tests are limited by their design for the masses. They are limited in understanding because there's many variables and great diversity, hence unhelpful if one seeks understanding or has it.
  8. GleamAxe

    GleamAxe Active Member

    I've always had intense difficulty with tests like these. My responses to the vast majority of the questions are things like:

    "Sometimes yes, sometimes no."
    "In what context?"
    "That is not applicable to my life or experience."
    "I don't understand."
    "I don't know."
    "I am not aware of having strong feelings one way or the other."
    "I don't believe it is possible to know one way or the other."
    "That depends on how you define [ambiguous word used in question]."

    I just took the humanmetrics.com test Xom linked in the OP, and was told:
  9. Gon

    Gon Active Member

    You know one major problem with measures like the MBTI is that they implicitly assume that each individual has one overarching true "self" to be evaluated and understood. There's some research research in social psychology that would argue against that point.
  10. link6616

    link6616 Well-Known Member

    So... Took the test again...
    Introvert(44%) iNtuitive(38%) iNtuitive Thinking(25%) Judging(1%)
    • You have moderate preference of Introversion over Extraversion (44%)​
    • You have moderate preference of Intuition over Sensing (38%)​
    • You have moderate preference of Thinking over Feeling (25%)​
    • You have marginal or no preference of Judging over Perceiving (1%)​
    So once again, INTJ as opposed to INTP, which is my usual one, admittedly, only just, but still, nice seeing the slow changes (last year I was an ISTJ)
  11. Llano

    Llano New Member

    With MBTI is is, or at least should be, all about the functions. While I consider the MBTI and even more so Jungian Cognitive Functions a valuable tool, I've become highly critical of most online tests because they usually do not measure functions but preference. In my opinion, they're doing more harm than good.

    For example, INTJ and INTP have a completely different function stack.
    INTJ is:
    - dominant introverted intuition
    - auxiliary extraverted thinking
    - tertiary introverted feeling
    - inferior extraverted sensing

    INTP is:
    - dominant introverted thinking
    - auxiliary extraverted intuition
    - tertiary introverted sensing
    - inferior extaverted feeling.

    There is zero functional overlap. If you look at the functions - which the MBTI is based on - it's almost impossible to vacillate between INTJ and INTP. It just doesn't make any sense. Changing from an INTP to an INTJ would mean complete neurological re-wiring. That's extremely unlikely to happen. A difference in only one letter can be huge. So don't go by the letters, go by the functions.

    There are many good resources on this online. As a very basic starting point, you might want to go to:
    - http://www.cognitiveprocesses.com/
    - http://www.youtube.com/user/DaveSuperPowers
    - http://www.keys2cognition.com/cgjung.htm (definitely not perfect but useful)
  12. tipzntrix

    tipzntrix Well-Known Member


    I would say rich engineering education would put you in ISTJ as opposed to INTJ as there is a lot of praise for applied knowledge and practical application. That being said and also coming from an engineering education:
    ISTJ​

    Introvert(44%) Sensing(1%) Thinking(38%) Judging(11%)
    • You have moderate preference of Introversion over Extraversion (44%)​
    • You have marginal or no preference of Sensing over Intuition (1%)​
    • You have moderate preference of Thinking over Feeling (38%)​
    • You have slight preference of Judging over Perceiving (11%)​
    I don't actually have many strong preferences here.
  13. swordsman3003

    swordsman3003 Well-Known Member

    Am I the only forum member who thinks this test is invalid on several levels?
    Xom likes this.
  14. Gaste

    Gaste Active Member

    No
    Xom and swordsman3003 like this.
  15. Caphriel

    Caphriel Well-Known Member

    Nope, I'm pretty sure MBTI is useless at best and dangerously misleading at worst. The Wikipedia page has a good summary of the criticisms leveled against it, and the thing that really scares me is how popular MBTI is relative to its problems.
    Xom and swordsman3003 like this.
  16. ratxt1

    ratxt1 Well-Known Member

    But taking tests is fun and assigning random letters to yourself is funner.

    - ratxt1 GHYTR
    link6616, rodohk and swordsman3003 like this.
  17. Inkstud

    Inkstud Well-Known Member

    One thing I think is weird about this test is that supposedly INFJs are one of the rarest types, comprising only ~1% of the population. Regardless, myself and like half of my friends are apparently INFJs. Maybe it's just a birds of a feather thing, but it still seems a little nuts.
  18. Plum

    Plum Well-Known Member

    I just took this test and clicked through to see what jobs were recommended for me. Apparently I should have gone into either Archaeology, Counseling or Religious Studies... see if you can figure out my letters from that :p

    Show Spoiler

    INFP - Introvert(33%) iNtuitive(38%) Feeling(25%) Perceiving(33)%
    • You have moderate preference of Introversion over Extraversion (33%)
    • You have moderate preference of Intuition over Sensing (38%)
    • You have moderate preference of Feeling over Thinking (25%)
    • You have moderate preference of Perceiving over Judging (33%)
  19. garcia1000

    garcia1000 World Champion Staff Member

    [non-trolling] I think if you want a high quality self-reported assessment of yourself, maybe you can try the 'Big 5' tests like IPIP NEO.
    Xom likes this.
  20. swordsman3003

    swordsman3003 Well-Known Member

    At least its not based on Carl Jung.
  21. link6616

    link6616 Well-Known Member


    That was a fun test.

    Show Spoiler


    EXTRAVERSION...............12 ************

    ..Friendliness.............45 *********************************************

    ..Gregariousness...........44 ********************************************

    ..Assertiveness............13 *************

    ..Activity Level...........34 **********************************

    ..Excitement-Seeking.......1 *

    ..Cheerfulness.............19 *******************

    Your score on Extraversion is low, indicating you are introverted, reserved, and quiet. You enjoy solitude and solitary activities. Your socializing tends to be restricted to a few close friends.


    AGREEABLENESS..............69 *********************************************************************

    ..Trust....................99 ***************************************************************************************************

    ..Morality.................88 ****************************************************************************************

    ..Altruism.................63 ***************************************************************

    ..Cooperation..............36 ************************************

    ..Modesty..................62 **************************************************************

    ..Sympathy.................8 ********

    Your high level of Agreeableness indicates a strong interest in others' needs and well-being. You are pleasant, sympathetic, and cooperative.


    CONSCIENTIOUSNESS..........2 **

    ..Self-Efficacy............51 ***************************************************

    ..Orderliness..............20 ********************

    ..Dutifulness..............63 ***************************************************************

    ..Achievement-Striving.....1 *

    ..Self-Discipline..........0

    ..Cautiousness.............2 **

    Your score on Conscientiousness is low, indicating you like to live for the moment and do what feels good now. Your work tends to be careless and disorganized.


    NEUROTICISM................93 *********************************************************************************************

    ..Anxiety..................80 ********************************************************************************

    ..Anger....................49 *************************************************

    ..Depression...............75 ***************************************************************************

    ..Self-Consciousness.......95 ***********************************************************************************************

    ..Immoderation.............99 ***************************************************************************************************

    ..Vulnerability............92 ********************************************************************************************

    Your score on Neuroticism is high, indicating that you are easily upset, even by what most people consider the normal demands of living. People consider you to be sensitive and emotional.


    OPENNESS TO EXPERIENCE.....57 *********************************************************

    ..Imagination..............91 *******************************************************************************************

    ..Artistic Interests.......19 *******************

    ..Emotionality.............7 *******

    ..Adventurousness..........40 ****************************************

    ..Intellect................84 ************************************************************************************

    ..Liberalism...............79 *******************************************************************************

    Your score on Openness to Experience is average, indicating you enjoy tradition but are willing to try new things. Your thinking is neither simple nor complex. To others you appear to be a well-educated person but not an intellectual.


    I love tests that tell me I'm a special snowflake of X set of letter... Hmm... Maybe this is why I'm part of the LGBTIQ community.
  22. infernovia

    infernovia Well-Known Member

    Average Extraversion, Low Agreeableness, Low Conscientious (should be average imo), High Neurotiscism (should be mid-high), high openness to experience mostly due to adventurousness and intellect.
  23. HugAKitten

    HugAKitten Active Member

    I always score ENFP. Typical breakdown for me is 20% E, essentially 100% for the others.
  24. ratxt1

    ratxt1 Well-Known Member

    IMO someone who routinely calculates odds for all possible outcomes in PS endgames should not be scoring 100 percent in intuitive and feeling.
    link6616 likes this.
  25. swordsman3003

    swordsman3003 Well-Known Member

    My advice is to not take this personality test seriously at all...it has nothing to do with empirics. Jung, upon whom the personality type ideas used in this test are founded, openly rejected the scientific method because objective evidence contradicted his ideas.

    Here's something that never ceases to amazing me:

    So many people I know think that standardized testing is BS. They argue that IQ testing, high school graduation exams, the SAT (in the U.S.), etc etc are invalid or unsound for all sorts of reasons.

    At least that kind of testing, while it has a lot of limitations, is statistically predictive of demonstrable facts about a person. Jungian personality types have no empirical basis and do not lead to information that can be used practically. The MBTI in particular has several flaws that undermine the validity of the test process (and that's not even getting into the soundness of Jungian personality types as a factual concept.)
    link6616 likes this.
  26. tipzntrix

    tipzntrix Well-Known Member

    I also did this test. I guess self-reported of course help you to believe that the test accurately describes you, whether you think it is flawed like MBTI or you think it's solid like IPIP NEO. This is because the test is repeating back to you what you told it. It's pretty easy to be affected by confirmation bias like this. I think being self-reported already does things. It still feels fulfilling in a way though. Posting it is the most fulfilling I think. People are always trying to find out more about you if they are interested in you, and posting your personality results is a fairly easy way to tell them "This is what I think I am" in a way that has been standardized.

    So that means it's time for my IPIP NEO results. gufufufu
    Show Spoiler

    EXTRAVERSION...............51
    ..Friendliness.............82
    ..Gregariousness...........44
    ..Assertiveness............13
    ..Activity Level...........10
    ..Excitement-Seeking.......91
    ..Cheerfulness.............53

    Your score on Extraversion is average, indicating you are neither a subdued loner nor a jovial chatterbox. You enjoy time with others but also time alone.

    AGREEABLENESS..............48
    ..Trust....................37
    ..Morality.................75
    ..Altruism.................46
    ..Cooperation..............56
    ..Modesty..................52
    ..Sympathy.................28

    Your level of Agreeableness is average, indicating some concern with others' Needs, but, generally, unwillingness to sacrifice yourself for others.

    CONSCIENTIOUSNESS..........48
    ..Self-Efficacy............51
    ..Orderliness..............20
    ..Dutifulness..............85
    ..Achievement-Striving.....43
    ..Self-Discipline..........61
    ..Cautiousness.............38

    Your score on Conscientiousness is average. This means you are reasonably reliable, organized, and self-controlled.

    NEUROTICISM................17
    ..Anxiety..................30
    ..Anger....................5
    ..Depression...............30
    ..Self-Consciousness.......50
    ..Immoderation.............10
    ..Vulnerability............24

    Your score on Neuroticism is low, indicating that you are exceptionally calm, composed and unflappable. You do not react with intense emotions, even to situations that most people would describe as stressful.

    OPENNESS TO EXPERIENCE.....27
    ..Imagination..............54
    ..Artistic Interests.......11
    ..Emotionality.............7
    ..Adventurousness..........16
    ..Intellect................61
    ..Liberalism...............68

    Your score on Openness to Experience is low, indicating you like to think in plain and simple terms. Others describe you as down-to-earth, practical, and conservative.

  27. garcia1000

    garcia1000 World Champion Staff Member

    Xom and Lofobal like this.
  28. Caphriel

    Caphriel Well-Known Member

    I have blocked reddit on my computer because every time I go there I get sucked into an abyss of interesting things to read and lose hours or days of my life. Can you summarize, please?
  29. jelyman

    jelyman Active Member

    I am ENFJ. I use to be info but that's about the only change. If I remember right at least.
  30. infernovia

    infernovia Well-Known Member

    It's inconsistent. 50% of people switches personality types when retaking the test. MBTI has a bad reputation in measuring how well you do on your job, but even the best of these tests still they do not have high correlation (~.3).
    Lofobal likes this.
  31. zem

    zem Super Moderator Staff Member

    sounds like it should not be used for any practical purpose ever, like a horoscope, but is fun to talk about, like I guess a horoscope is supposed to be.
  32. swordsman3003

    swordsman3003 Well-Known Member

    It's based on Jung. He explicitly rejected science when the scientific method disproved his ideas.
    deluks917 and Caphriel like this.
  33. swordsman3003

    swordsman3003 Well-Known Member

    Memories, Dreams, Reflections: P. 209.
  34. Archon Shiva

    Archon Shiva Well-Known Member

    I have tried passing the Myers-Briggs test, but they caught me cheating off the next guy and failed me.
    Lofobal and Caphriel like this.
  35. garcia1000

    garcia1000 World Champion Staff Member

  36. ntillerman

    ntillerman Well-Known Member

    I have taken the Myers-Brigg several times throughout my life and each time I was ENTP. With the exception of T, my scores were all reasonably balanced. The last time I took the test, I got a 100% for T.

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