Discussion in 'Forum Games' started by curiousCat, Oct 16, 2011.
EBWOP: Did Ixta just votelynch EVERY SINGLE PLAYER in one post?
I was making it look pretty? XD bad idea apparently. It's edited now.... Bolding is only for lynch, I will remember. Better go bold my other votes then, i didn't do it there.
@Ixtaccihuatl on Ehrgeix: It actually doesn't surprise me that he doesn't have any strong D1 scum reads simply because of how functionally different this game is from previous games. I'd rather not elaborate.
@Ixtaccihuatl on Me: "Tries to put a lot of pressure on everyone else, goes back and forth on liking/not liking the idea of +/- claim." Please check the accuracy of this statement. Currently I'm only pressuring quiet players
@People, especially 'new' players voting for Archon: My concern still stands, it's no secret Archon is playing extremely pro-Town and appears to be a strong candidate for NG but should he win, who do you expect to test him? He's guilty of many similar practices that are being cited against me negatively (especially among the grievances of Tea and Ixtaccihuatl) and yet nobody seems to acknowledge it. I feel like if Archon is a Witch and he wins, he has the influence to take town for a ride. I would feel ALLOT safer with an Archon election if I KNEW there was a player out there who'd keep him in check. So I ask, who's the check and balance to Archon?
@Archon: If neither of us could be elected, who would you elect? If you'd rather I answer first, I'm willing.
Just make a new post that says:
[B]Elect ArchonShiva, Lynch beruru[/B]
And yes, currently you're not officially voting to do either (although I suspect CC would maybe let it slide).
[B]Elect ArchonShiva, Lynch beruru[/B]
Correction, make a post that says:
[b]Elect ArchonShiva, Lynch beruru[/b]
FAKE EDIT: I thought the code function would display bb code... guess not.
[b]Elect ArchonShiva, Lynch beruru[/b]
Actually hm... I think I might have technically changed my vote by mistake...
Elect bbobjs, Lynch Fivexthethird just in case.
I can re look over things I suppose, perhaps the back and forth bit was wrong, it was a quick note I wrote down earlier. As for the pressure... well, there's a lot of quieter players, myself included of course, so it's no surprise if the pressure is on pretty much everyone when you say it like that. But I think you're doing some pressuring for the NG thing too. Although it's certainly not a bad thing to try and be sure of who gets that. Doesn't change my general feeling though. Perhaps it would be better wording to say that you seem to be playing very assertively? I don't know if that's normal for you or not, or how you play when you're a witch. I've seen a lot of people try to do that as a strategy in other games though.
Also, I already edited before I saw you say that :/ Should I un-edit at this point? Or would that just make this more of a problem...
Sorry about not being here, religious stuff happened (can't post on saturdays anyway, for future reference, but jewish holidays happened, so nothing from wednesday night-tonight)
I can't really make sense of what's been said while I've been gone, and i have a distinct feeling i won't even be able to, so, if possible, I'd like to Be replaced, because I'm really not likely to be able to figure out what's going on, and I'd be nothing but a deadweight.
Sorry, but this is probably best for everyone's enjoyment of the game.
I'll watch from the sidelines
(By that i mean, cat, could you give me a list of roles or something, because I can't keep up with this, and the timing was really unfortunate)
is editing in general frowned upon? That's probably a good thing to know...
also, with the ehrgeix thing, yourself and other people seem to have no problem pointing at just about everyone for feeling scummy. He's going lalala, everyone feels towny. Maybe that's true, or maybe it's just self protective.
either you or archon, but I'm not going to go through and count.
@Geneti: Please reconsider being replaced. If things probably should be confusing AtM. See how you feel after D2 and if nothing makes sense to you still, then consider dropping out of the game. Don't worry about making bad plays, making mistakes is how you learn; worry about avoiding the bad plays you can and catching/making the most of bad plays you do make. Trust me, D1 is always the hardest.
They are definitely talking the most out of anyone but I wouldn't complain. I'm getting a lot of information about the game and how you guys play it by reading their stuff. Archon's post especially seem to be very clear and concise to me.
I missed 3 days, and a ton of content.
I honestly have no idea what's going on, and it's not I don't know how to play and more that I missed a lot which will likely be referenced later.
I'd rather not replace out, but I have a feeling that my confusion won't exactly dissipate.
Just don't edit again. Enough of us know what the original content of the post was so, it's not an issue.
I didn't edit what it said anyway, just the bolding of it. It really doesn't seem like that would be an issue, although I do understand wanting to preserve the integrity of each post for the sake of the game.
Disclaimer: Generally when dealing with the subject of replacements I like to keep my comments as detached from the game as possible... but in this case I'm going to somewhat break that tradition.
Basically from my PoV not much has really happened in the past 3 days. The objectives for town are still get people talking and get people to put their votes where it counts. It may seem like allot of text but it's basically allot of nothing/allot of repetition. I believe the only real change from the last time you posted is Mirdini dropped out of the race for NG? It's honestly not even essential that you know exactly what's going on with everyone ATM, you can still be +EV your Team even if the choices you make have the potential to become -EV you/your role.
I'll go prod fivex on IRC to post more. Unless he's strategically lurking, in which case I'll lynch him.
I share the general feeling that AS is probably town, but I'm wary of electing him.
I don't think I've ever seen bbobjs scum (?) so I dunno what to think there. Seems like typical town bbobjs play to me, so will play accordingly until I see otherwise. Aside from that, we're really stuck until the people we want to pressure actually respond.
*wonders where the hell Roie is*
As for me supposedly "knowing everything", I made this ruleset, yes, and know all of the interactions, yes, but that doesn't mean I know general, long-term strategies that could be used in this. There's always something that will pop up that'll make me think "Hey, I never thought of that! That's pretty neat."
That's one of the reasons I went ahead with the +/- thing. I have no idea how this will turn out or how witches will react to it, but it seems solid from a role interaction viewpoint.
I can simulate role interactions, not how people will act/react.
This is kinda ranty, but beruru hasn't responded to my post yet so I'm kinda in limbo because I don't want to move on yet. We still have a few days left anyways.
I'm sorta feeling less and less good about Ixtaccihuatl. Although its mostly gut feeling, my reasoning is as follows:
1) That wall post was pretty damned noncomital. Doesn't seem to want to go out on a limb and call somebody out as either townor scum.This could just as easily be a new pler not wanting to tread on any toes, though.
2) More noncomittal later on ("Who do you think has posted more content?" "Either X or Y")
...Ok, looking back i guess its mostlya chain of non comittal and "safe posts" tied in with a weird gut feeling that i cant quite shake. Does anybody else see something here or are these all newbtells (as they cold bry possibly be).
EBWOP: that should be "could very possibly be"
Ehrgeix feels scummy, I thought I was pretty clear about that. bbobjs seems pretty suspicious as well. Several people I haven't seen enough from to even really think about if they feel scummy or not, and I don't want to judge them too quickly, because I was one of them the whole busy week. Comdemning someone for not talking would condemn myself as well, and I already seem to have enough suspicion on me without digging myself a nice little hole.
on the other hand, I also said I think Archon seems very Town to me. I liked some of what Kai- said later on as well, even though he did a good job making me look bad. And I'm starting to think Tea sounds more towny the more he talks.
That's exactly the kind of post I was hoping for from Tea. And it inspired Ixtax to post better and to answer my question! So good of all of you to comply with my wishes. For now Unvote Tea but I do expect better of you in the future.
Sorry to see Geneti replace out. I think you could handle this; you did fine in CavernHunt. Though I guess the post rate was more manageable there.
I'd like to pressure beruru, fixex, and Deceptive, still. With that in mind:
Vote: fivex (Deadline) He's posted little and what little he has is not great. I'd like to hear from him on everything. Agreed with Prime that if he is strategically lurking, then lynching him would be a fine option if nothing better comes up.
I'm still pretty happy with my NG vote. I'm reading town on Archon Shiva and Mirdini too, so I'm not unhappy with any serious campaign at the moment so I'll let that run it's course. Worse case, I think bbobjs would be more likely to implode if he is actually a witch and tries to come up with some elaborate scheme to fool town. I'm not sure Archon Shiva would do the same in that scenario. For myself, I'd prefer a later NG slot to check up on some of these people.
Re: reads on me by Ixtac and Tea. Yup that what I'd about expect at this point. I've played witch almost as often as town and I started mostly witch (I think only witch on this forum so far), so I'm still learning how to play town. Also, theorycrafting is what I love to do, but I do it sometimes in thread, like with the whole +/- thing so that people can follow my thought processes. Also, this ruleset is different enough from the last version that a bit of theorycrafting helps me (and hopefully other people) get a grip on what's possible in the game. Someday I'm going to live to the endgame, though, and not be lynched/nightkilled too early for my theorycrafting to do any good except for entertaining/boring the dead.
I want to say that I pretty much accused Kai of being a witch (saying I would steal his vote) and also mentioned aerinon as vaguely witch-ish.
Geneti: It would be sad if you had to leave.
You'll see more as the game moves forward, but often silly, often panicked, and always very, very scummy. He vomits tells from his ankles when he's scum, though, so don't worry too much about him.
I'm counting on Prime, but I'm mostly going for transparency: My post count makes sure you get plenty of reads, and the amount of digging I plan to do using the log should keep that up.
Prime. After he reveals his sign.
Editing: The basic rule is never, ever edit - there are plenty of very strong cheats one can do with edits. Limited bolding is okay if it doesn't contain any names. Otherwise use underlines and colors.
Geneti: I concur - please stay. We'll carry you through the early days and the game will settle down soon. It's scary, but not dangerous. Just try to tell us when you expect to be away. And if you leave, don't get the role list yet - this allows you to replace your replacement if needed.
Everyone: Remember, one meta rule is NO LYING ABOUT OUTSIDE COMMITMENTS. If someone says "can't post", we take it at face value. If you don't want to post, by could, explain that it's a strategy, NEVER pretend you could not.
Next guy to post a vote tally isn't getting lynched today!
Since posting seems to be a big deal, I would like to give forewarning about being gone in the middle of this next week. I've got a brother coming to visit who I haven't seen in 2 years, so I will probably not be checking my computer much, if at all, Tues/Wed/Thurs.
So vaguely I didn't catch it?
Much better, actually! I like it when people post their reads clearly. This is always +EV - if you're town, your opinion is head and put on the table; helps in an endgamesituation and even during the game. If you're scum, you couldpotentially be caught outbussing or buddying.
Yup,gonna have much more time on my hands in the coming weeks hopefully! Shouldbe back to mygood ol' posting speed!
I caught it It can't have been THAT vague if i caught it.
He sounds like me.
thank you guys, but no, I will replace out.
What are outbussing and buddying?
Prime claimed because I said that the claiming plan was bad because of witches. I'd to think that the logical response wouldn't have been claiming, and so it's reasonable to assume that I did not anticipate a claim reaction to that post.
In fact, I was trying to prevent exactly that, which is why I'm not happy with Prime's claim as it is.
My gut response to your posts was inexperienced town, not witch. I vaguely supported your lynch train because A) I don't care the for "I'm new" defense, and B) Lynching someone who slipped up and didn't recover is better (IMO) than lynching a sleb. But I wasn't convinced it was going to be a good lynch.
That is partially busyness (moving!), which ended my campaign for today, and partially the focus on the Tea Train preventing us from really threatening the lurky people, which I feel should be our priority now that Tea has wallposted and is being nicely active.
I feel okay about both Archon and bbobjs as NG candidates, neither is really a largely superior choice in my current opinion.
I need to read through the last two pages in more detail to update my opinion on Ixta and Tea, (and make new votals) but I'm happier with their activity level at least.
Not quite always. Specifically, indicating you trust someone strongly to be town has a downside:
Witches want to kill strong players - but NK mostly confirms them not being witches, so a lynch is much better. If they know there's no way someone's getting lynched, they will be more likely to NK them. That's why beruru acts scummy and posts little, for example: she wants to live past the first two days.
Don't worry about making big lists too much. It stuff like asking people to name their three most trusted players that's really dangerous. It can also lead to slips that help Demon guess roles.
Without a Witch NG to establish things, their ability to muck with us is much much more limited due to them not knowing who one another are. Being more worried about us giving out too much info in order to prevent witches from trading theirs is a real concern, but:
'witches getting ng is recoverable' and 'witches can screw with us using chat (and this could be a worse thing than witches getting ng)' seem to be completely at odds with each other, since a witch getting ng enables (italics are fine, right?) them to screw with us that much better.
Mostly the exchange in #174 between you and Archon Shiva.
That, from my point of view looks like 'I say something I know people will view as scummy, but this is intentional so that people will look at me harder which is a good thing because my reads work better when people are talking at me. Plus I don't think pressure from doing this will stick to me anyway'.
Maybe that's an unfair paraphrasing, but it's what I think is really being said. If this is a normal thing for bbobjs to do (anyone have commentary?) then this is ignorable.
Day 1 is pretty lame (for scumhunting) all things considered, since info roles don't have anything they can influence the game with (other than Lovers knowing one another), but it's great for laying the groundwork for scumhunting on future days. And that could be even better in this game since Witches might be accidently aggroing on each other, and then if there is a Witch NG, that aggro will suddenly disappear/greatly lessen. So from the angle of 'Setting up superior scumhunting on later days' I think we're doing pretty well just by getting people to talk and giving solid opinions on things.
For NG, I'm still happy with my vote on Archon Shiva but I wouldn't support a bbobjs NG right now.
lol sorry, my space bar on my laptop seems to stop working every now and then, and i rarely stop to proofread my posts. Maybe i'll do that in the future.
I mean Bussing rather then outbussing, which comes from the mafia throwing one of their own under a bus, which basically, in game, means that mafia (or, witch in this case) will purposefully vote, and even lynch, a fellow mafia member to make themselves look good.
Buddying is almost the opposite of that, and is kinda like mafia helping one another out. I believe it can be also used to refer to a mafia member latching on to a town member and agreeing with everything they say in the hopes that the town member wont vote them, and also to look good if the town member falls ("See, he thought the same things i did, he was town, i must be too!")
Makes...sense....but surely the mafia, too, has ideas on who the most townie looking people are? I mean, thinking someone is townie doesnt automatically make them townie. The mafia/witches will surely kill the strong players regardless.
Although, your point is a good one. I'm just playing the devil's advocate, i spose
Oh, also Tally:
Arkaal's Vote Tally (16 Alive, 9 is majority)
ArchonShiva: 5 (ArchonShiva, Kai-, Arkaal, Tea, Ixtaccihuatl)
fivexthethird: 1 (fivexthethird)
bbobjs: 3 (Ehrgeix, bbobjs, aerinon)
Geneti: 1 (PrimeIntellect)
Mirdini: 3 (Geneti, Deceptive, Mirdini)
Abstaining: 3 (Beruru, RoieTRS, AlexSierra)
Beruru: 5 (PrimeIntellect, ArchonShiva, Kai-, Deceptive, Ixtaccihuatl)
fivexthethird: 5 (bbobjs, Arkaal, Tea, aerinon, Mirdini)
bbobjs: 1 (Geneti)
Tea: 1 (fivexthethird)
Deceptive: 1 (Beruru)
Abstaining: 3 (Ehrgeix, RoieTRS, AlexSierra)
No. I am not revealing, and I am NOT getting elected NG. I'm /already/ getting protection tonight; why waste the NG protection on me?
Archon, what prompted you to say this:
*One additional disclaimer for my vote tally - It's not currently capable of tracking Deadline votes, so please don't assume hammers based on my totals, since there is usually a deadline vote among the leading candidates.
Does this have much application in a game where you don't find out roles at all until the game is over?
This might seem like a stupid question, but what's the difference between a normal vote and a deadline vote?
I currently object to an unrevealed Prime receiving protection. I will come back to this soon, but a taking a break from it at bbobjs' demand.
bbobjs' question, obviously. He offered a hypothetical where neither of us two could be elected, and gave no indication that we were past D1. If his were the case, I'd campaign for you to be either elected or lynched, depending if you reveal or not. I don't care about the duplicate protection - town NG is that important to me tonight, and it frees up (other sign) to use their power elsewhere anyway. Obviously you're not getting NG tonight, since we ARE eligible for it.
Oh yeah, and re: bbobjs' assuming a leadership position, I believe it's new from last game, where he was drawn into a town block and ended up the most resilient confirmed town ever - thus leading for a long time. Feel free to correct me.
Deadline votes do not come into effect until the day is done. Thus, you could technically have someone with 10 votes lynched today, despite the hammer being at 9, as long as at least one was a deadline vote.
I am currently looking for replacements for Geneti and Roie.
Arkaal, you missed my swapping my electionvote to bbobjs.
Speaking readwise etc. I'm actually feeling better and better about an AS ng, though the problem of "ASwitch would be a lot better at hiding witchiness than bbobjs scum" and my (still-strong) townread on bbob makes me happier with that electionvote.
Everyone's talking OTOH has just made me happier with my lynchvote on fivex who well yeah not much to say there no posts just lurkin'. Alex is in a similar boat, and I think we're going to be seeing Roie replaced out at this rate. Ixta and Kai- have been talking enough that it puts them above sleb in lynchterms in my eyes, and yeah not much more to say there.
Deceptive, you haven't responded since earlier (though I do have to note for everyone that this game is moving pretty hard and fast so people might have trouble getting to post - however that doesn't really excuse fivex/darcy's multi-day absence.) to my questions - what election candidate would you prefer if I wasn't on the table (I'm not)?
What're your opinions on Kai- and Ixta?
Prime, why is your revealing -EV town (as you apparently seem to think it is), considering Shiva's plan?
!~ REPLACEMENT ALERT~!
Souless-Solace is replacing RoieTRS.
He's never done a hunt before!
He's my friend so DON'T KILL HIM except for lynches and nightkills and yeah
Yes, that is me. I'm reading through the entire thread currently and should be ready in time for the next deadline.
Welcome to the game and good luck
Yep! Peopel are often very good at narrowing down the possible roles in Hunts. Unfortunately, i'm not one of them, but people can seriously work out roles from the smallest of hints. In an endgame situation, when most of the roles are "known", it can help tremendously to find that last remaining scum.
I believe one way of doing it is listing all the roles you know, then all the roles you suspect etc, and whatever remains you can often easily fit into place. This game has a lot of information to that end, including the whole +/- thing to help narrow stuff down.
Also, you can sometimes work out who was a witch post-death by their behaviour in hindsight, and as such work out who their fellow withces were by their behaviour.
Finally, other behavioural things such as oddly somehow always supporting a particular person's opinions, or perhaps being reluctant to vote someone (or even the exact opposite for wine purposes), all add up to help you find scum!
A deadline vote doesn'tcount until the deadline. Its a game mechanic put into place to have your vote there and meaning something, but prevent accidental hammerings from occuring.
I think i see both sides here, but there was something about not answering other people'squestions earlier? (What was that word again?)
And finally, this!
Welcome to the game, Solace.
Regarding roles: Demon can look at how players change their stance on the players that were checked. Zombie can track down Channeler by seein when they post and how they write, or if they have similar opinions between the two personas. Lovers may be too supportive of each other, or accidentally bring up stuff that was only in lover chat. Geezer may give or take a vote from a witch, confirming they just died. Succesful banishments confirm yet more roles. And all info roles want to reveal eventually. Then, learning anyone's role through any means reduces the space for others, as well as give better hindsight looking at the previous comments of info roles. No need to shut up completely, but remember that information do not exist in a vacuum.
Prime: Without regard to the fact that you know your faction (we don't), explain how going along with your gambit makes any sense whatsoever.
To put it another way, suppose (sign) protects you, you turn out town, all is great. Next game, same ruleset, Sotek claims +/-, asks for protection. You're +. Now what?
Town: You don't need to wait until next game. What's the check against Prime being scum - Ask yourselves: (and feel free to answer)
What is the cost to us if townPrime reveals his full role?
What is the cost to witches if scumPrime is asked to reveal his full role?
And if you'd like to go further:
What is the gain to us if we protect (unrevealed) townPrime?
What is the gain to witches if both signs protect (unrevealed) scumPrime?
Remember that Prime revealing tomorrow doesn't work, due to (likely) dead players.
I'll reveal after we talk about it a bit more.
However, I think I'll want to elect Prime Intellect because then I'll be confirmed town and thus the best choice for n1 NG. My counterpart can just do whatever tonight.
So, all in favor of me revealing?
The only complaint that I have against it is that it shuts down potential gambit options for me.
I'd...rather you didnt claim. Like Archon said, information does not exist in a vaccuum. You claiming could be brutal later on.
However, perhaps the positives outweigh the negatives in this scenario. If you're scum, its best for town if you claim now rather then later.
If, however, you're town, how -/+ev will it be if you do claim? I'd argue that it would be -ev, particularly with the witches being able to narrow down everyone else's roles.
bbobjs: how do you feel about Prime as NG?
Separate names with a comma.