Puzzle Strike on Kickstarter!

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by Sirlin, Apr 17, 2012.

  1. Sirlin

    Sirlin Steward of the Realm Staff Member

    Help bring Puzzle Strike to the people with our kickstarter project!

    The standalone expansion to Puzzle Strike as well as a redesigned base set have been a long time in the making. The online version here at www.fantasystrike.com has been adjusted and adjusted based on both tournament play and casual play, and I'd really like to lock it down and get the physical version totally in sync with the online version.

    Puzzle Strike Shadows has 10 new characters, 24 new puzzle chips, new gameplay modes including a free-for-all mode with no player elimination (wowow!), a 2v2 Team battle mode, and a customization mode. Hopefully it will have even more components too, depending on how the stretch goals go. The base set has been retro-fitted with all that same great stuff, and the puzzle chips powered up to be more useful than ever.

    Thanks in advance for supporting the kickstarter campaign, current and future Puzzle Strikers!

    Attached Files:

    GeckoTH, Aphotix, -Y- and 1 other person like this.
  2. -Y-

    -Y- Well-Known Member

    Ok so I bought the second edition and upgrade pack. What's new in 3rd edition?
  3. CrystalChaos

    CrystalChaos Moderator Staff Member

    Changelist is here.
  4. -Y-

    -Y- Well-Known Member

    That's kind a hard choice. I kinda want new chips but don't want to pay again for all the changed chips. There are lot of changes, not sure if I could write all those on blanks... Any chance there is another v2 -> v3 upgrade pack?
    Fenrir and NoahTheDuke like this.
  5. Akvo

    Akvo New Member

    HYPE TRAIN. I'm going to try to get as many of my board game friends to kickstart this.

    Speaking of which, are you planning to show the new version at any cons, Sirlin?
  6. Fenrir

    Fenrir Well-Known Member

    Alternatively just the option to buy a ton of blank chips would be helpful, assuming you are, as I am, obsessed with staying current.

    Edit - yes, I meant blank, not black.
  7. -Y-

    -Y- Well-Known Member

    You mean blank chips, right? I am a bit obsessed. However I also prefer chips not looking like crap either. and they will look like crap if I draw on them. Not to mention lack of color pencils :(
  8. Fry

    Fry Well-Known Member

    As a general rule, I do not click "social share" buttons. Ever.

    ...I did for this.
    Inkstud likes this.
  9. Plagiarist

    Plagiarist New Member

    Bluh. I'm really excited about the expansion, but kind of upset about the third edition coming so soon after I bought it so recently at PAX. Is there any chance of producing a separate upgrade pack that just contains the newly balanced chips for the base set, or even just the newly balanced character chips, since the expansion has all of the balanced puzzle chips/rulebook?

    E: Gah, failed to realize the expansion has all new puzzle chips. Still, I think a separate upgrade pack with just the changed base set stuff would be nice :)

    Gonna get on that expansion either way, though!
    NoahTheDuke and -Y- like this.
  10. Dasilodavi

    Dasilodavi New Member

    I'm with Plagiarist here, though I do not condone plagiarism generally :p.

    Seriously though, I made an account specifically to voice my dislike for the 3rd edition popping up so quickly after purchasing a set and expansion. Fiddling with the extra cardboard and everything not fitting into the box without some serious re-arranging is annoying enough, but now I have a pile of outdated pieces? Boardgames shouldn't have to be "patched" like this, and if they do the previous buyers shouldn't be penalized. Please make it possible for previous owners to get an updated version without having to shell out another $55.
  11. Fuzzypickles

    Fuzzypickles New Member

    New player here. Glad to be able to purchase the Third Edition, though I'm hesitant on picking up the expansion since it seems like it'll probably get a revision at some point. We'll see. I'm sure the base set alone will keep me entertained for quite some time anyway. =]
    NoahTheDuke likes this.
  12. -Y-

    -Y- Well-Known Member

    Yeah we need an Upgrade pack Lvl 2. I mean it can't be that hard... We just need changed chips and perhaps a tiny rulebook to explain changes (no mats or screens required). I think it would come a long way to building trust that owners of previous versions can have the safety net of upgrading their recently bought edition into a new one.

    I want to use blanks to test out new chips, not fixed the ones I have!

    EDIT: Minor nitpick. Sirlin, your video doesn't show current or new version of Puzzle strike. I think people would be more persuaded if they saw how awesome the current game looks like.
    NoahTheDuke likes this.
  13. calaedw

    calaedw New Member

    I REALLY want to support this since but I literally just bought Puzzle Strike + Upgrade pack 2 weeks ago. I'm kind of irked that now my Puzzle Strike + upgrade pack will be considered out of date in a few months. Is there an option to upgrade the 2nd edition to 3rd? I would gladly pay something like $20-30 to upgrade my 2nd edition and another $55 for the shadows expansion... please Sirlin, make this happen!
  14. Alcibiade_2nd

    Alcibiade_2nd New Member

    Same here, just bought the second edition with the upgrade pack a few days ago, now im a bit pissed.

    And the upgrade pack does not have the new combine chip.
  15. ApolloAndy

    ApolloAndy Well-Known Member

    Don't know how relevant this is or if it matters or what, but Jaina's BV on the kickstarter page shows +red when the current version is +black.
  16. Star Slayer

    Star Slayer Well-Known Member

    I noticed that too. Hope it's just a mistake and not a nerf. Or did some chips change in the last few days?
  17. Sirlin

    Sirlin Steward of the Realm Staff Member

    Jaina's Burning Vigor has +black in the real print files. I don't know how that web graphic got to be +red by mistake, but good catch.
  18. Star Slayer

    Star Slayer Well-Known Member

    Good to hear. That would have been a major nerf for Jaina.

    I never used Kickstarter before, but I really want both 3rd edition and Shadows expansion, so it looks like I have to create an account. :)
  19. Delha

    Delha Active Member

    Just a quick question - Will copies of the game purchased through Kickstarter include P&P versions like buying from your store? I used that to create my randomizer deck and was planning to do so again.
  20. Sirlin

    Sirlin Steward of the Realm Staff Member

    Hmm. That's a good question. The answer is no, but I will work on changing that. I will have to get back to you. Thanks for reminding me about this though.
  21. Claytus

    Claytus Well-Known Member

    Is it possible to add to the stretch goals the inclusion of a bag of little plastic tokens to use as "trap markers". That has to be one of the #1 complaints I hear, that everyone hates using "It's a Trap", and excludes from offline play because it's too much trouble to go find coins, and it sucks to use extra blank/character chips as markers because they're so large you can't read what's in the stack anymore.

    Not saying the complaint makes sense, but it would make a lot of people happy, and Dominion set a good precedent with their tokens in the seaside expansion and others.
  22. Sirlin

    Sirlin Steward of the Realm Staff Member

    It always seemed like a lame complaint to me. Use a penny or something. I also like that both the base and expansion have exactly, exactly the same physical components and internals so that there is economy of scale on manufacturing both. I don't know if it's really worth delaying release to make graphics for that, and deal with manufacturing stuff on where it's stored in the box and all. I've played like hundeds of magic cards that said to use a counter, and it never even occurred to me to complain about that.
  23. Akvo

    Akvo New Member

    The goal's been achieved! Let's try for the stretch goals (I really want to see 8-bit art of the new characters)!
  24. Sotek

    Sotek Well-Known Member

    I always just took the top chip of the stack and flipped it upside down and offset when trapping things.
  25. rabid_schnauzer

    rabid_schnauzer Well-Known Member

    Well that's less than 48 hours to hit the initial goal, I think this calls for some real Stretch Goals:

    How many zeroes do we need to add to the end of that number to get the Fantasy Strike fighting game made?
    How much on top of that to get the puzzle game too?
    NidoKing and Plagiarist like this.
  26. -Y-

    -Y- Well-Known Member

    A lot... fighting game as in SF would need like a mil I think. Sirlin would need to hire a lot of people (programmers and artist don't come cheap) for a long period of time (I assume 6month at best) maybe even a lot of equipment not to mention supplies... Saw some rough estimate on HackerNews saying you need to pay about $10,000 per developer per month (that's $60,000 per developer if game is done on time).

    Personally I'd prefer upgrade packs for SE->TE + PS expansion or iOS/Android version of PS, Yomi than anything else.
    NoahTheDuke likes this.
  27. pkt-zer0

    pkt-zer0 Well-Known Member

    6 months, haha. Wouldn't count on it. If it takes even Blizzard 6 years to achieve their level of quality, a small indie team isn't going to do that much better than them - even with the project scope cut back significantly.
  28. -Y-

    -Y- Well-Known Member

    I did say at best. Theoretically you probably could finish a game if you had all A Star developer and artist and everything went without a single hitch. Also not sure what level of quality would Sirlin aim for. With all respect to Thelo current fantasy strike games don't yet have that level of polish.
  29. pkt-zer0

    pkt-zer0 Well-Known Member

    Yeah, I'm saying that even for a best-case scenario, that'd basically assume that you can put 100 guys on the project without diminishing returns kicking in, which is most likely not happening. Also, conservative estimates are wrong almost 100% of the time. For reference, 2DBoy (both of them experienced developers) estimated that World of Goo would take 8 months to finish. It took two years.

    This is why I brought up SC2: in practice, with a 60-man team of all-star developers and infinite funds, it still took them six years to finish the first version of the game. Going with an additional 2 years per expansion, that'll make it a decade in total. Sure, the single-player part is probably not an insignificant contribution to this, but cutting that wouldn't have made things 90% faster or whatever.
  30. -Y-

    -Y- Well-Known Member

    This just emphasizes how much time and money you really need. If I was wrong in that it will take more time that just drives my initial point further. Sirlin would need a LOT more money than that kickstarter will yield (as in 1mil more ).
  31. Sirlin

    Sirlin Steward of the Realm Staff Member

    You need a minimum of 18 months development. And then what? You still need to be able to update the game, you probably want some DLC content these days so it doesn't die, and so on. Also if it's anything like "all projects, ever" then it will be late. So really you need a lot more than 18 months. So a fighting game for real might take like $3 million. I think skullgirls did it for less (still 7 figures though) because they all worked for free for a long time. A huge team of artists worked for free way before there was any funding.
    NoahTheDuke likes this.
  32. Plagiarist

    Plagiarist New Member

    Honestly, as cool as sounds to have a series of Fantasy Strike video games, one of the reasons I love these tabletop games so much is that I'm awful at those games, mostly because I lack the mental agility and finger dexterity to play at any competitive kind of level, whereas the format of Yomi/PS/FD give me all the time I could possibly need to make my move. I'm perfectly happy with these games remaining on the table, but a video game option still just sounds cool.
    NoahTheDuke likes this.
  33. ApolloAndy

    ApolloAndy Well-Known Member

    Is there any avenue for the new combinatorics (DS and Custom Combo too, i guess, though I can much more easily remember the changes to those) to be available outside of the kickstarter? Like, after May 17th, is that it for new combinatorics?
    NoahTheDuke likes this.
  34. Sirlin

    Sirlin Steward of the Realm Staff Member

    Andy: Yeah I'll come up with something for that.
  35. pkt-zer0

    pkt-zer0 Well-Known Member

    Note: you should consider posting an update to KS as well (if you aren't doing so already), not just your blog, even if it's just "yay we made it, what's next". Though given the kerfluffle about the upgraded 2nd ed. -> 3rd ed. base set transition, you might want to address it personally, not just in an FAQ entry.
  36. rabid_schnauzer

    rabid_schnauzer Well-Known Member

    Two slightly more serious ideas for potential additional stretch goals:

    First Idea: A convention calendar with official tournaments at major gaming conventions. (GenCon, Origins, DragonCon, BGGCon, the PAXes, the big one in Germany, etc) This takes time and effort, but it's also good marketing and additional funding could be used to cover travel expenses and/or reimburse people to staff such events

    Second idea: How feasible would it be to implement online tutorials for each character in a style similar to the current overall tutorial? Is this something that could be done with additional funds?
  37. Scattercat

    Scattercat Active Member

    Even a voucher for people who bought the game in the past couple of months to get a small discount on the new version would be a little something. I bought PS on the strength of how much I enjoyed Flash Duel and online Yomi, but I didn't read the forums closely enough to realize that there was a new edition coming out literally a month later. Caveat emptor, I suppose, but I think a small warning or notice on the page to purchase the "old" Puzzle Strike might have been apropos. Just to the effect that the game was in the process of changing substantially and etc. I might have bought it regardless (since I'm hardly prepping for tournaments), and I wouldn't be unhappy if I'd been able to do so with open eyes.

    I don't think anyone involved did anything actually inappropriate, and I'm not trying to cast aspersions, but I can't help irrationally feeling a little cheated. I'm not a "serious" enough gamer to be happy ginning up my own chips with blanks or stickers; I'm very much a casual weekend board-gamer who (correctly!) thought Puzzle Strike looked like a fun game that my friends would enjoy. I'll probably purchase the Shadows set at some point, regardless, despite everything. I just can't quite bring myself to spend another sixty bucks on a game I already own because I didn't scour the forums before purchasing.
  38. Zejety

    Zejety Patreon Supporter

    I for one am glad about a third edition with notable changes, but that's mostly because I am looking for a good reason to upgrade from my compatible-with-nothing first edition set.
    Unfortunately, $40 shipping is a pretty hefty sum, and will most likely turn out to be a deal breaker for me. :(
  39. Sotek

    Sotek Well-Known Member

    If you can convince your local game store to talk to Game Salute and carry it for you, that'd be a good option.

    But yeah, shipping isn't cheap. :(
  40. Lemmingrad

    Lemmingrad Well-Known Member

    Same boat as you man. Got a both a mdf chip set and a wood set, neither of which is compatable AND makes storing in my box awkward lol.
  41. JohnnySmash

    JohnnySmash Active Member

    Hey does anyone have any idea how long it will be after the kickstarter ends before we get our copy of the game? I've been looking around and I can't find anything.
  42. Delha

    Delha Active Member

    I'd assume a few months at the very minmum for the Expansion or new Base Sets. Since we're basically fronting cash to help offset production costs, the actual manufacturing process presumably hasn't actually gotten rolling yet. From there, you've got proofing, corrections/revisions, more proofing, etc.
  43. Claytus

    Claytus Well-Known Member

    I believe if you hunt around the kickstarter page, it notes that expected ship dates would be in September?
  44. rabid_schnauzer

    rabid_schnauzer Well-Known Member

    So, 8 days to hit both starting slide goals, and double the main goal.

    And then Penny Arcade links the project.

    Mr Sirlin, you are gonna need some additional stretch goals.
  45. Oni

    Oni Active Member

    September shipping(reward choice listing pages).
    While I've 'pre-ordered' the base 3rd edition, I trust it's close to the retail price because of manufacture scaling/readiness. I hope I or many have not caused David to lose and not gain money or for a significant amount.
  46. rabid_schnauzer

    rabid_schnauzer Well-Known Member

    Less-than-serious suggestions for additional stretch goals:

    • Mandatory Anarchy: - the dev server only allows :czane: mirrors for one day.
    • Launch of Puzzle Strike: Bag of Chips brand potato chips
    • Found a Super-PAC to re-elect :cquince:
    • Include an official PS match timer in each box. To accurately reflect the online environment in which most testing occured, such timers should lag every third match and occasionally just timeout for no reason.
    • Rewrite the strategy guide as a choose-your-own adventure.
    • Heck with that, produce it as a major motion picture.
    • Having devolped such a solid core game, add some additional bells and whistles to the shipped version. Literally just throw some bells and whistles into each box.
    • Use the additional funding to do research into developing another game mode: the drinking game. Lots and lots of research.
    Lemmingrad, Turbo164 and garcia1000 like this.
  47. CrystalChaos

    CrystalChaos Moderator Staff Member

  48. Turbo164

    Turbo164 Well-Known Member

    Ooh and the strategy guide motion picture would be an opportunity for potato chips product placement!
  49. -Y-

    -Y- Well-Known Member

  50. Logo

    Logo Well-Known Member

    Seems kinda like it's putting too much weight on the day 1 pledge amount for future progression, but otherwise pretty cool.

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