Question about counter-counter crashing

Discussion in 'Puzzle-Strike: Bag of Chips' started by Zeede, Oct 12, 2010.

  1. Zeede

    Zeede New Member

    Okay, here's the scenario:

    1) I crash a 3-gem to my opponent.
    2) He counter crashes a 1-gem.

    Can I respond with a counter-counter crash? Or does being able to counter crash rely on there being a net sum of gems headed your way? This leads me to another scenario:

    1) I crash a 2-gem to my opponent.
    2) He counter crashes a 2-gem.

    Can I then crash more to him?

    Cameron
     
  2. Sotek

    Sotek Super Moderator Staff Member

    You can only react to sends. Sends cannot be 0 or negative gems.

    So neither scenario lets you crash more.
     
  3. Zeede

    Zeede New Member

    Excellent, thanks for clearing this up!

    Cameron
     
  4. ApolloAndy

    ApolloAndy Well-Known Member

    Ok, so this one came up today:
    Can CCCC?

    The question is really whether the original Crash and the CCC are the same event (and thus can only be reacted to once) or two separate events.

    This is also basically the same question as "Can you swap RA's indefinitely?"
     
  5. Claytus

    Claytus Well-Known Member

    I guess I have the same question... this was the one thing I got confused about when reading the rules.

    I guess for the counter-counter-crash I'm assuming that the first crash was initiated by a chip I played, so it's no longer in my hand. Then for the third crash, I would need to have a second crash chip in my hand to use as a reaction?

    It seems like the indefinite RA's thing has the same issue... as long as you're inside the same chain of reactions, it seems like you shouldn't be able to reuse the same chip, right? But I don't know.

    Dominion makes this kind of situation very clear (reactions usually say reveal your hand, discard nothing, etc... so it's obvious you can keep using a reaction card). But Puzzle Strike had me sitting around for a while wondering if I'm supposed to discard a chip that's used as a reaction or what... lack of clarification made that eventually seem to not be the case, but it seems like it should be spelled out somewhere.
     
  6. ApolloAndy

    ApolloAndy Well-Known Member

    Oh I know for sure you can't use the same chip twice.
     
  7. brainof7

    brainof7 Member

    There has to be something that says you can only play chips from your hand. If not I would just play everything from my bag.
     
  8. Sirlin

    Sirlin Steward of the Realm Staff Member

    It *very clear* that you discard reactions on use, Claytus. This is stated explicitly in the rulebook now (www.sirlin.net/ps/rules is the latest version). Dominion is the weird one on this issue, by the way, because not discarding a chip on use is strange and unintuitive. In Puzzle Strike when you play any chip, whether reaction or not, it goes out of your hand, like in any card game ever (except for reactions in Dominion, the strange anomaly).

    That isn't what they are asking anyway. They mean when you have multiple copies of a chip. If gems are coming from you from a crash or a counter-crash or a counter-counter-counter-counter-counter crash, and you have a crash in your hand, why wouldn't you be able to use it? Andy, if you already know that you can counter-crash a counter-crash, I'm not sure how it would be possible for your question on counter-crashes here to be "no." Isn't the only possible ruling "yes"? Or am I missing something?
     
  9. Claytus

    Claytus Well-Known Member

    Cool, is that a recent change? I had always thought it was, but the last time I was teaching people the game, it came up, and everyone else was assuming don't discard (probably because of Dominion), and I could not for the life of me find it in the rulebook.

    I clearly see it in the pdf... I'll have to check when I get home if I was being blind, or if I need to print that new version for myself.

    Yeah... only possible ruling seems like "yes" to me as well.
     
  10. Sirlin

    Sirlin Steward of the Realm Staff Member

    I don't remember when that was changed, it was after the current rulebooks were printed for the shipping version of the game, but the print-and-play has included it for a while now. "Normal people" discard cards on use anyway, it only ever confused Dominion wierdos! :p

    The second printing of the game will have the rulebook at sirlin.net/ps/rules, but I should say that all orders of the first edition still have the original rules (again, they printed tons of them already and no one anticipated any changes). The differences are few, so it's not a big deal really, but I just wanted to point that out so that anyone reading knows these changes: clarification that you discard reactions on use, clarification that you can counter-crash a counter-crash, check the lose-the-game condition just before the buy phase, and Lum's Poker Winnings costs an action to use.
     
  11. ApolloAndy

    ApolloAndy Well-Known Member

    That was my interpretation as well, but someone I was playing against claimed that the crash was an event, and counter crash was a distinct event, but the CCC was not a third distinct event, but part of the first event and so ended the chain.
     
  12. Sirlin

    Sirlin Steward of the Realm Staff Member

    Oh. The whole thing about "events" is to say that you can only react one time to a given link in the chain. Like if someone crashes to you, you can't react with both a counter-crash and Stone Wall, you'd have to pick just one of those two things. But I think if you do choose one thing, that is also an event and the opponent can react to that with ONE thing. Then you can react to his reaction with ONE thing, and so on. And of course you'd need a separate chip for each of these things because you discard each chip on use.
     

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