Roller Derby and Capcom vs SNK 2

Discussion in 'General Chit-chat' started by Fry, Aug 16, 2012.

  1. Fry

    Fry Well-Known Member

    http://windymanrd.wordpress.com/2012/08/12/the-win-button/

    I thought this was kinda interesting, even though I don't know much about CVS2 and I know even less about roller derby. My rudimentary understanding is that there's currently a problem with the derby rules that makes causes a boring strategy to be very, very strong. Writer makes a comparison to roll canceling in CVS2, except that apparently the derby strategy requires less execution than "normal" derby, as opposed to roll canceling which at least requires more execution than "normal" CVS2.

    The pictures and captions had me half expecting to see Cranky Kong show up (and then there was an actual link to PTW, so clearly I wasn't entirely imagining the Sirlin influences).
     
  2. FMJaguar

    FMJaguar Administrator

    This is some crazy alternate universe CvS2. CvS2 without RC is probably less fun, and less balanced. The improvement did have a cost (increased execution barrier, harder to understand gameplay), but the alternative was probably worse, certainly not the paradise of balance and depth claimed by the author.

    In addition, 3 grooves (P,S,K) did not have rc available, and some C teams could get by without RC'ing. So the author could have played RC-less without some extra honor rule.

    Some other things i noticed:

    - The author seems to support the horrible olympic badminton decision
    - Promoting "the way the game is supposed to be played" instead of actual rulesets... "Gentlewoman agreements", really?

    If the author has a problem with the ruleset, the PTW answer would not include 'agreements', 'playing the game the way it was meant to be played', or calling players cheaters who are, in fact, not actually cheating.
     
  3. Eji1700

    Eji1700 Well-Known Member

    Question for those that played CvS2-
    If given a chance to HD remix the game, would it be possible to balance? From what I recall roll canceling wasn't the only issue with the game. The dominance of A groove comes to mind(or was that just because of roll canceling?)

    Edit for FM-
    I only glanced through it, and while I agree with you, I do think there's an interesting point about what to do with a poor ruleset which might be detrimental to the game/sport/whatever.
     
  4. FMJaguar

    FMJaguar Administrator

    Is this about competition? or is this about molding competition to be 'sellable'?

    A detriment to sales does not necessarily mean a detriment to the quality of competition.
     
  5. Eji1700

    Eji1700 Well-Known Member

    Unless you're an already established sport you basically need competition to be sellable, and that's what this is about. No one cares if they win at a game that's boring to watch or poorly designed. I mean you could play HDR or ST with Akuma. It'd just be akuma mirrors all day. Still legit competition. Probably wouldn't be played for 20 years.
     
  6. Claytus

    Claytus Well-Known Member

    This doesn't seem right to me. The author starts by pointing out that the rules are awful and should be changed. And then is forced to point out that the rules officials have chosen not to make a change in the short term.

    The rest of what he says is just points about how people can deal with that fact. And he goes on to point out that there other leagues that use better rule sets that result in better games (in his opinion?), which does set some sort of precedent.

    He's not actually making of the simple errors you're accusing him of...
     
    KayinN likes this.
  7. Bucky

    Bucky Well-Known Member

    What he alludes to, but doesn't actually describe in that article, is that the no-pack loophole sometimes makes being in the back so advantageous that occasionally both teams will refuse to move forward for the entire round resulting in a "non-jam".

    This is believed to be a Nash Equillibrium at the game's starting state. Induction implies it will remain that way for each subsequent jam until one team makes itself vulnerable by moving. Usually, one or both teams decide to concede a possible disadvantage rather than not play.
     

Share This Page