The Random Questions/Help Thread

Discussion in 'Street Fighter HD Remix' started by Avatar Z, Dec 7, 2008.

  1. Avatar Z

    Avatar Z Well-Known Member

    This thread is for simple questions about inputs, gameplay nuances, strategy, and just about anything else related to improving one's game that doesn't warrant an entire thread.

    I'm new to ST, and I just know I'll have dozens of simple questions like these, so I decided to open this thread. However, everyone else feel free to use it, too. It sure beats the following:

    **********

    OK, here's my first question I've been dying to know: Is there a "proper" way to mash out of grabs (Blanka bite, Yoga noogie, etc)? Sometimes I get bitten 8 times, and other times I get bitten about 4 times tops. Strangely enough, the times where I get many bites are when I'm mashing like a mad man trying to break my controller, and the times where I get bitten only a few times are when I'm just half-heartedly hitting a couple buttons to escape.

    So, what, exactly, contributes to a faster grab escape? Is it the joystick, the buttons, or both? Do I spin the joystick around, or shake it back and forth, or what? Does it help to hit all buttons simultaneously (maybe by slapping my palm against them, assuming it's an arcade stick), or should I "piano" them, or what?

    My poor Chun has way too many bite marks on her face. :-(

    ~Z
  2. fluxcore

    fluxcore New Member

    L&R on the stick as fast as you can. I don't think that buttons make a difference in this game though...
  3. DanTheTimid

    DanTheTimid New Member

    Interesting, if only there was an easy way to test this out, I need more friends who are into helping test random things like this. I've been asking this question (as well as how to most quickly get out of dizzies) for some time but no ones ever been able to give me anything more then "Uh... not really sure, I just mash the buttons and wiggle the stick like crazy" so it would be nice if some one out there who knows (DOES anyone actually know?) could shed light on the real truth to how these things worked. Also, if your the grabber, does wiggling the stick and or mashing buttons help extend the length of said grabs and if so what is the optimal way for that too.
  4. Mr ColdBlooded

    Mr ColdBlooded New Member

    I read that the best way to shake off dizzies and grabs is to shake the controller from d/b to u/f.

    I've got a question for this thread. Does anyone have any good strategies vs a great Vega player? It seems that he is almost the total package against the shoto players.
  5. SpicyCrab

    SpicyCrab Well-Known Member

    Cold Blooded is correct. Shake the joystick on the diagonals. Up, down, left and right count as one input each. If you shake left and right, you will get out half the speed as if you shake d/b to u/f.

    Personally, I piano the buttons and shake diagonals. I can consistently get out after about two hits most of the time.

    It helps to predict the grab and start shaking early.

    Does any one know whether buttons have an effect? I always mash them so I don't know for sure.
  6. fluxcore

    fluxcore New Member

  7. SpicyCrab

    SpicyCrab Well-Known Member

    Thought I would note that the wiki is incorrect about one thing "It is possible to mash out of throws in just one hit"

    I've seen it done before one hit even connects.
  8. FentonBailey

    FentonBailey Member

    Is this still true?

    From the SRK wiki for ST.

    Throw For The Win

    If you have the opponent's life down to where a teched throw would not kill him, but a non-teched throw would kill him, he will die regardless of if he techs or not. You will see him visually tech the throw, but he will still take full damage and die.

    This also works with dizzies. If the opponent has gotten hit by a couple of moves and is at the point where a throw would dizzy him, that throw is untechable, and the dizzy is guaranteed.

    Is this still true in HD:R?
  9. Thelo

    Thelo Administrator Staff Member

    Yep, it's still in there. "When the life is low, it's time to throw."
  10. FentonBailey

    FentonBailey Member

    Lol. Thanks. I'll remember that.
  11. Robyrt

    Robyrt New Member

    Yes, you definitely can't tech a throw that would kill you. I'm guessing that part of the code is now impossible to change: the part where it calculates whether you died or got dizzied from this hit has to trigger before the throw tech is detected, because those affect the player state while the opponent is falling. The bug - untechable throws in certain situations - is of less severity than the fix - being able to tech a throw that dizzied or killed you, then dizzy stars suddenly appear around your head when you land.
  12. sage

    sage Well-Known Member

    Bug? I always thought it was a feature.
  13. Thelo

    Thelo Administrator Staff Member

    For the record, I've seen many times in ST scenarios when a dead character was "dizzied", with swirling stars, for a half-second after dying from an Ochio throw's first hit. I haven't seen it happen in HD Remix yet, but that might just be because the Ochio has half the dizzy power it used to have, heh.
  14. SpicyCrab

    SpicyCrab Well-Known Member

    Anybody know if Guile has a better cross up combo than j.short, c.jab, flash kick?
  15. Sirlin

    Sirlin Steward of the Realm Staff Member

    I don't know as a developer the answer to shaking out of holds/dizzy. As a player though, I can shake out of that stuff extremely fast. Some players at MIT asked me to write a "joystick vibration faq" back then, but I never did. I don't know anything about diagonals counting as 2 inputs. Maybe that's an urban legend. I shake barely left, neutral, barely right, neutral, etc. The incredible speed of the shaking might pick up diagonals, or it might not, or that might be totally irrelevant, not sure. I'm pretty sure mashing the buttons does nothing, but I mash them as hard as I can because I can shake my left hand faster if my right hand is also locked in frantic shaking.

    Nothing is different in HD Remix about teching throws around when you die. So same as ST, if a throw would kill you, teching it won't reduce damage.

    After guile's crossup short, at the very least do low strong into flash kick. If you're super combo man, you can probably combo the super (old motion) after low strong. Another option is low short x 3, then flash kick. Or kara/renda cancel into super.
  16. BeastofBurden

    BeastofBurden Well-Known Member

    Is it possible to shake out of a dizzy then immediately perform a super move (like chun lis super) right after? I did it once and some player claimed it was BS and that lag or w/e reason played a role.

    Another question, I'm building a custom modified turbo, combo macro, optimized "get out of dizzy" input macro, joystick for SF2HDremix so I can surpass the rock that I am stuck on (rank 90), and was wondering if that is against any xbl rules or ranking system.
  17. SpicyCrab

    SpicyCrab Well-Known Member

    You won't get in trouble for it. It is a really stupid thing to do though.
  18. BeastofBurden

    BeastofBurden Well-Known Member

    Just playing to win. Sheesh. Scrub more? I probably won't compete with it online for reasons I do not wish to talk about atm. I'm still debating.
  19. Sirlin

    Sirlin Steward of the Realm Staff Member

    Using a macro like that is not tournament legal, so it's not part of playing to win. it's in the same category as kicking your opponent in the shins. Don't do it.
  20. Grant

    Grant New Member

    While you're at it, you should give yourself a "special/super button"

    ST checks to see if you've done a special or super just by checking which directions you've pressed recently, then choosing the highest-priority move that uses those directions.

    So if you had a button that would just cycle through D, DB, D, DF, F as fast as possible, and each frame had either jab down, or jab up, you should be able to get wake up super, or wake up reversal DP, or frame 1 SPD (thanks, new motion), or whatever.

    I think.
  21. FinalSlayer

    FinalSlayer Banned

    There are three different types of dizzies in ST and HDR; the stars, the devils, and the angels circling around the head of the hurt fighter.

    Is the choice of dizzy completely random, are they a function of how much damage was inflicted (and if so, by what amount), or something else entirely?
  22. FinalSlayer

    FinalSlayer Banned

    Well, it appears the helpful people on SRK answered my last question, heh.
  23. Avatar Z

    Avatar Z Well-Known Member

    ^*psst*... Can you please link me to the answer?

    ~Z
  24. FinalSlayer

    FinalSlayer Banned

  25. banewlf

    banewlf Well-Known Member

    Okay, so I havent bought the game yet (because I havent bought my 360 yet). But I wanted to go ahead and ask a few questions. I havent played street fighter in a long time, and there are tons of nuances I never learned anyway.

    So here's a few Ryu specific questions I wanted to ask:

    1) What do I do when i'm knocked down and my opponent stands over me?

    2) Maybe this is just me not having enough experience with the game to notice, but whats the disadvantage with using the red fireball over the blue one, as it doesnt seem to have a longer cooldown?

    3) I noticed, after watching some videos, that many ryu players will do a very quick spinning kick in air when retreating with a jump. What is the purpose of this?

    4) Does anyone have any sites or videos that have tutorials for getting into competitive play? Preferably something with frame data, matchups, basic tutorials of movesets, any of that stuff.

    Thanks in advance.
  26. Avatar Z

    Avatar Z Well-Known Member

    1) I'm gonna assume that he throws an attack over you (a "meaty") as well. In that case, you can either a) hold down block as you get up, or b) Reversal Dragon Punch (refer to Sirlin's Advanced ST tutorial on the front page's side bar). Reversal Throw works, too (...right?).

    Just watch that he's not baiting your Reversal DP. ;)

    2) I don't know for sure, sorry.

    3) It builds up super meter. Special moves, on whiff or connect, do this.

    4) I think the NKI site (forgot the URL) might have what you're looking for. Also you might read the Shoryuken.com wiki.
  27. Jinmaster

    Jinmaster New Member

    When an opponent stands over you need to guess what to do. Most basic responses are:

    Block. Low by default while looking for possible overhead attack.

    Attack. Need one that can count as a reversal, such as dragon punch.

    Throw. They may throw you, if u think they will, respond with mashing throw buttons and reverse (this lets you block possibly, or tech the throw).

    You could jump, but I wouldn't try that.


    My question: What are the properties of Honda's headbutt, especially vs projectiles. Sometime he eats them, sometimes it does nothing but slow him down, and sagats seems to go under him. Can someone illustrate what his headbutt properties are? Do they differ by strength of button pressed beyond distance / damage? Does one anti-air better than another? Are there any jumping moves in the game that always hit him out cleanly, or do all jump moves trade at best?
  28. Vulcan55

    Vulcan55 New Member

    Hondas Jab Headbutts destroys fireballs (But goes a very short distance).
    Hondas Other two headbutts don't destroy fireballs, and he gets hit, but does more Distance/damage.
    I would assume Jab headbutt is the best Headbutt to use for anti-air, but I wouldn't use headbutt for anti-air unless on accident.
  29. SpicyCrab

    SpicyCrab Well-Known Member

    Headbutt is a very good anti-air, especially as a reversal because it has invincible start up.
  30. Thelo

    Thelo Administrator Staff Member

    The Jab headbutt is invincible on startup, so it's an excellent anti-air and reversal. On startup, it will beat every jumping attack in the game. Jab headbutt (and super headbutt) destroys most projectiles, but it doesn't destroy Ryu's super fireball or Akuma's red fireball.

    All headbutts go over Sagat's low Tiger shots. Jab headbutt (and super headbutt) destroys Sagat's high Tiger shots, Strong and Fierce headbutts get beaten by Sagat's high Tiger shots.

    All headbutts are safe on block. Well, almost - if you headbutt over Sagat's low Tiger shot, you might land on it after hitting Sagat, but that's it.

    Honda's headbutts, unlike Blanka's horizontal rolls, have a lot of recovery if they whiff, so avoid whiffing in general. In particular, if you use a jab headbutt to destroy a fireball from fullscreen, the recovery is bad enough that your opponent can often punish you after it, if they're ready for it (Ryu can walk-up and sweep, Chun Li can walk-up and throw, etc.)

    Jab headbutt travels the least (about half-screen) and does the least damage, while Fierce headbutt travels fullscreen.

    All headbutts are generally excellent anti-air moves and have the same hitboxes, but most characters do have some jumping attack that will beat the headbutts when properly timed (and when it's not a jab headbutt on its starting frames). For instance, many characters' jumping roundhouse can potentially beat headbutts, but they can also lose or trade if mistimed. Dee Jay's jumping jab, Blanka's jumping short, Cammy's jumping strong are other excellent anti-headbutt moves - they are easy to time so they will always beat non-startup headbutts. Others, like Honda's jumping short, are much more difficult to time well enough against headbutts, and will often trade.

    Fierce headbutts are obviously best if you want to quickly punish an airborne enemy that's far away, but it has the danger of whiffing completely - the enemy can jump cleanly over it. It's much harder to jump over jab or strong headbutts, so as a rule of thumb, use the shortest headbutt that will do the job, to avoid whiffing.

    Interestingly, the super headbutt travels slower than fierce headbutts, so it's much harder to jump over. The super headbutt is an excellent anti-air - it seems to have higher priority than fierce headbutts (it very rarely loses cleanly to jumping attacks, if ever), it's hard to jump over, it travels fullscreen, and it does a ton of damage. Watch out, though - if the enemy blocks the first hit, he can hit you out of it with a high-priority "Dragon punch"-style move.
  31. Anonymoose

    Anonymoose New Member

    Hai guys, I need help with *gasp

    Chun Li. Can anyone point out some cool combos with her? Not the usual jump and yap yap yap like I do. >.>
  32. Effayy

    Effayy Member

    I'm a complete fighting game neophyte and decided to download HD Remix because I"m getting bored of shooters and need something fresh. Last night I played with some of my friends and went 0-15, not even taking a single round. Needless to say I was a tad discouraged at the time, but now I'm using this ass whooping as motivation to get better (though I have no doubt that I'll have another losing streak like that before I get any decent). Problem is, I don't really know where to start.

    My friends told me the best way is to get decent with Ryu first because it'll give me a good basic understanding of the game, but I don't particularly like playing as Ryu. The only character I've even come close to winning with is Cammy, so I kinda want to stick with her, though Chun Li and Dhalsim both seem interesting.

    It just seems like I get hit once and can't retaliate at all, even though I'm trying to block. I'm aware some moves must be blocked when crouching or standing, but I can't tell which.

    I know this might seem kind of convoluted, but pretty much I'm just overwhelmed with the amount of information I need to collect, and I don't know where to begin. Any help would be appreciated.
  33. Lofobal

    Lofobal Well-Known Member

    Effayy, I suggest holding crouch-block most of the time, and reacting to air moves and ground-overheads with standing block, since low attacks tend to be extremely quick and you'll probably pick up which ground moves are overheads relatively quickly this way (there aren't many). Almost all air moves are overheads.

    Get used to blocking on wake-up, many new players try to attack, and although it's possible to do so, you'll lose unless you know what you're doing.

    As for characters, play around until you find one that fits your style.
  34. Effayy

    Effayy Member

    My friend also suggested I block more, which is a habit I'll just have to get into.

    Also, what are the exact directions for the dragon punch style inputs? Is it (facing right) left, right diagonal down left, forward?
  35. Vulcan55

    Vulcan55 New Member

    Towards, Down, Down-Towards, Punch/Kick.
    Sort of a 'Z' motion. (Or backwards Z if facing left)
    EDIT: Like this(Facing Left):
    [​IMG]
  36. SpicyCrab

    SpicyCrab Well-Known Member

    Dont' start out with Ryu. Start by watching Sirlins tutorial videos. Ryu is one of the most difficult characters to play imo, start with Honda, Sagat, or Balrog. (not that they're easier to play, but def easier to learn.
  37. EtherGK

    EtherGK New Member

    Can someone explain or just briefly give me a run down on canceling? I have a feeling that it has something to do with completing one of Ryu combos, the

    j.hk, cr.mk xx fp hadouken, and to my understanding....
    j means jumping
    cr means crouching
    xx means??
    fp means fierce

    So yeah, I just have a problem completing some basic combos

    Help a new guy out, thanks
  38. elliott20

    elliott20 Member

    xx means canceling.

    canceling basically means you input the move before the move you're in is not done yet, and it comes out prior the animation finishing. In Ryu's case, all of his cr. punches should be cancelable into hadokens of corresponding strength. his cr. mk can also be canceled into just about any fireball, iirc.

    start with a cr. hp into lp hadoken, since the cr hp takes longer to come out and gives you more time to finish the lp hadoken. the trick here is to not watch to see if your cr. hp connects and THEN input the fireball motion, but to hit the cr hp and roll right into the hadoken without pausing. once you get paster at it, you can experiment with different crouch moves that leads into a hadoken motion.
  39. sage

    sage Well-Known Member

    My best combos with Chun Li are knockdown -> knockdown and that seems to work. Once I got air short kick into standing short into lightning legs, a three hit combo. That was cool.
    This article on the Shoryuken wiki describes a bunch of things you can do with her: http://www.shoryuken.com/wiki/index.php/Chun-Li_(ST)
  40. Jinmaster

    Jinmaster New Member

    More questions:

    Akuma:

    How do you do the akuma air fireball crossup on a downed opponent? Where do you stand and what strength do you use?

    Sagat:

    Chun Li owned my Sagat with crouching and standing strong into throw like 5 times in a row (i think they were strongs). I couldn't dp or reverse throw. What gives? Also, Which anti air of his will actually work consistently vs Chun?

    Vs Honda, what moves, if any, can stop slaps?

    Vega:

    How do you fight vega mirror match? Seems like j.strong is good as anti air, but not sure what gameplan should be.

    What does vega do vs ken that shoryukens all day? It seems that when he whiffs I can't punish with anything painful. I throw he techs. I sweep it does low damage. Roll is risky. Claw low damage. When he hits me it knocks me down and does good damage. Randomness owns me in that match.

    Bison:
    Does Bison have a corner trap on shotos of any sort in the corner anymore? How the heck does he fight shotos? Specially ryu with the new fake fireball.

    Other:
    How does the ranking system actually work?
  41. Thelo

    Thelo Administrator Staff Member

    I spoke a bit about it here.
  42. elliott20

    elliott20 Member

    Jinmaster? you wouldn't happen to post on Tekkenzaibatsu as well, would you?
  43. Jinmaster

    Jinmaster New Member

    Nah, that's the Tekken Jinmaster who is like a top player in Tekken. I had the name Jinmaster first though. Trust me! :confused:

    FYI, I took it from MvC1.
  44. Margalis

    Margalis Banned

    I believe you use the old tiger knee motion, which is a motion from down to up/towards. Press punch just after you leave the ground and it will register as a fireball motion and do an air fireball. Probably use jab?

    Learn to piano. The piano method is when you do the DP motion and roll your fingers across the punches. You have one, two then all three pressed, then release them one at a time. Because you can trigger a special move with a button press or release this gives you 6 different inputs to hit the reversal window with and makes reversals occur much more often.

    That said, standing strongs into throws is really annoying with Chun.

    As far as beating her air attacks try to do a late tiger uppercut and remember that you can pause at down/towards for a while before you have to press the button. If you do that it avoids her kick you in the face and also lets her fall farther into the area where the tiger uppercut does more damage and is more likely to win instead of trade or lose.

    Block. Then use some sort of low punch usually.

    If you are close you can use his anti-air juggle then juggle with it again for 3 hits and decent damage. Otherwise his best combo is something like low forward, low strong. Vega is not great at punishing. That's just a weakness in his game.
  45. elliott20

    elliott20 Member

    Ahh, THAT Jin. Yeah, that would have been my second guess.

    I just thought you'd never know! We could be in the presence of one of the top Tekken players!

    I still remember that dude's post talking about how broken Tekken 4 Jin was. (Or was he FOR tekken 4 Jin? I can't remember anymore)
  46. Effayy

    Effayy Member

    That's very helpful.

    Also, I don't know if this is old news or not, but for some reason I can do Cammy's thrust kick by inputting quarter circle forward twice and then kick (just like her super). Is that normal, or a glitch or what?
  47. Normal because of a few factors.

    If you look at the inputs for what you're doing compared to what comes out, you'll see why it works.

    Super: D, DF, F, D, DF, F + K
    Special: F, D, DF + K

    I've bolded out the key parts. Even though you've hit the extra F between DF and K, you still get the special because the game allows this error for leanience and forgiveness (otherwise, you'd have to be pitch perfect to get your special moves all the time = less fun for beginners learning the game). This is also why early on, beginners end up getting random Dragon Punches using Ryu/Ken when constantly trying to Hadouken (see Elephant Larry's excellent SF parody for a great in joke on this). Conversely, this is also why one of the easy ways to learn to Dragon Punch is to walk forward before doing a Hadouken :).

    Back to Cammy, you should notice that the super motion will always do the super if you have the meter, because its a higher priority move to be accepted by the inputs you've used. If you don't get super but always get the special instead, than you're missing the final F input (or hitting K too early).
  48. Effayy

    Effayy Member

    Thanks. Yeah, I noticed that I got the super every time when I tried it. I was just confused because I was pressing the stick in the complete opposite direction that the game said I was supposed too.

    Live and learn (and post on forums).
  49. Oh wait - is Cammy's Thrust Kick command the one that's labeled incorrectly in the game? Her command is supposed to be F, D, DF + K. I know there's a wrong command labeled in the game, but can't remember if its her Thrust Kick or not...
  50. Staples

    Staples New Member

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