Tinyhunt 2

Discussion in 'Forum Games' started by Ehrgeix, Jul 1, 2012.

  1. Ehrgeix

    Ehrgeix Well-Known Member

    I think that if soup is not so strong (it's less strong in this ruleset than previously, btw!) town can just trueclaim out of pressure and witches lose.
  2. Eidolonic

    Eidolonic Well-Known Member

    I actually don't think Soup is worth using all that often as a witch, unless you are the last one alive, and you have no real choice.

    The only time Soup becomes strong is if town does dumb things. Deceptive's claim was bad, Bbobjs and Wobber were obvious lovers by day two, and I had Dancer narrowed down to Marabu or Moo (was going to soup Marabu as Dancer if we lynched Deceptive, I think).

    The main mistake I made was assuming that the priest was dead when I killed Archon. The priest check n1 was a guilty on Jwlk, but Koopa never revealed - Jwlk got lynched, but that ambiguity meant I could really play off the Deceptive or Jwlk being scum angle to appear more town.
  3. Moo

    Moo New Member

    Well, if I wasn't a decomposed corpse right now I'd probably be pretty upset. I suppose it's partially my own fault for accepting my lynch at the end instead of continuing to insist on Eidolonic, but I'm still going to blame everyone else for killing me instead of him. Well...and I didn't really *know* he was actually the last witch, but I'll conveniently leave that part out of my memoirs.
  4. Archon Shiva

    Archon Shiva Well-Known Member

    No observer chat, Ehrgeix?
  5. Ehrgeix

    Ehrgeix Well-Known Member

    Nope, only fry messaged about it and we talked a little in conversations.
  6. Deceptive

    Deceptive Well-Known Member

    Damn, I was onto eidolonic then I let myself get talked down based on his voting record.
  7. Eidolonic

    Eidolonic Well-Known Member

    That was partially luck. I had Archon pegged as Priest, and knew I was going to kill him night two - so when he didn't reveal to get Jwlk lynched, I made sure to advocate that lynch since you'd have been able to confirm his alignment.

    But uh. Archon wasn't the priest, so if Koopa had revealed his night one check, I'd have looked really bad, I think.
  8. Deceptive

    Deceptive Well-Known Member

    I think witches are too strong, we only mislynched twice and lost. We only had one claim and a 50/50 shot of them hitting lovers. Soup is kinda too strong in a game this small.
  9. Deceptive

    Deceptive Well-Known Member

    I also do rather dislike the mechanic of witches being able to blow up in deadchat to stop an angel protect.
  10. Archon Shiva

    Archon Shiva Well-Known Member

    Was my going after jwlk really so obvious that everyone thought I was the priest? I didn't even realize koopa had checked him!

    btw, bbobjs, your gambit would have been fine - as dancer. As lover, clearing Wobber was way, way too obvious.

    One-sided gambits are a pro-witch thing, almost all the time. They're tempting because gambiting is fun, but they usually backfire spectacularly.
  11. Eidolonic

    Eidolonic Well-Known Member

    Lovers claimed, you claimed, and two mislynches. That's effectively 5 mislynches, which seems reasonableish. Like... claims are bad, and the ruleset is designed for them to be appropriately punished.
  12. Eidolonic

    Eidolonic Well-Known Member

    When I knew the priest check n1 was Jwlk, and you latched onto him, yeah. You even said something like "We can use Jwlk's flip to test Deceptive," which insinuated you already knew Jwlk's alignment, heh.

    I was genuinely shocked when I found out that you weren't the priest. Although I quickly realized you were the acolyte with the reveal, which helped.
  13. Archon Shiva

    Archon Shiva Well-Known Member

    Regarding faction strength, it's really because bbobjs' gambit fed them enough information to do it. His not coming clean forced you to reveal priest as well, which really shouldn't have been necessary. Witches knew from the start that he wasn't priest, and only town was in any doubt. I think it's balanced.

    As for exploding witches, that's how you control GAs. But being able to read witch chat after their death makes it a bit much. It kinda makes GAs irrelevant, as well, but it's hard making them relevant without breaking the game.
  14. Eidolonic

    Eidolonic Well-Known Member

    Explosion should be an 'activate during day' thing, probably. But it's not absurd as it is, with only one available for the entire witch team, rather than one per witch like the initial TinyHunt.
  15. Archon Shiva

    Archon Shiva Well-Known Member

    lol - you read stuff that simply wasn't there. I had no idea jwlk was scum, or checked, and patched onto him because he was "the one that was left" looking at Koopa's cleared list (I thought he'd checked Moo).
  16. Leto

    Leto Member

    Were you able to tell I was priest because I kept forgetting who bbjobs checked?

    I don't think things are balanced, and they are quite swingy. I guess maybe if town used martyr and didn't protect deceptive every night.

    Aerinon, were you saving Martyr for Deceptive after soup?
  17. Wobberjacky

    Wobberjacky Well-Known Member

    Pretty goddamned chadmad over here.
  18. Wobberjacky

    Wobberjacky Well-Known Member

    Why was this?
  19. Eidolonic

    Eidolonic Well-Known Member

    I knew he wasn't the priest. I decided he didn't fit as Acolyte unless you were the Priest, and I decided you weren't the priest.

    Basically: I knew he wasn't the priest (and 100% dismissed him as the Dancer. Dancer was either Moo or Marabu), and I didn't see him making that claim unless he had the 'I'm one of the lovers' fallback. Him 'checking' you night one, and your interactions with each other pretty much confirmed it for me. I hopped on your lynch that last day to basically force him to claim lovers to guarantee I'd have a 50/50 shot that night if I could redirect it to Marabu.

    Arkaal was pretty much confirmed to be EC when angels didn't protect night one, and that was my kill target. I had Ixta pegged as the Judge because I only saw 2 people as possibilities for the role, and I had an different role read on the other person.

    So things were narrowed down pretty good. Aerinon I decided was either Martyr or Pope - in retrospect, I should have stuck with my initial read of Martyr, because anyone else would have saved Archon or Koopa to townfirm themselves.

    Once Deceptive confirmed that Koopa was Priest, I had it slotted in as:

    Priest - Koopa
    Acolyte - Archon
    Judge - Ixta
    EC - Arkaal
    Detective - Deceptive

    That only let 5 other roles.

    The only two people that made any sense as lovers were you two, so

    Lover1 - Bbobjs
    Lover2 - Wobber

    Pope - Aerinon/Marabu/Moo
    Martyr - Aerinon/Marabu/Moo
    Dancer - Marabu/Moo

    So I trusted that Kai/Jwlk would explode to make sure Aerinon would die and prevent any Martyr shenanigans, and took the 50% shot in the dark with the lovers.

    It worked out, so yay.

    Claims are bad, and lovers need to decide if the 50% odds are worth it. I don't think lovers are good roles, and have suggested they be replaced with something like Vigilante/Oracle. Because it's too much townfirm for town, and too easy to narrow things down for scum.
  20. Fry

    Fry Well-Known Member

    Here are some observer comments I made at Ehrgeix:
    What the fuck, town, Deceptive is like so obviously a witch, how the fuck do you not lynch him

    "While we're waiting for Deceptive and while I still have internet, does anyone wanta take a guess at who I checked?
    Actually wait Jesus I didn't realize the day phases were so short... we really don't have allot of time to dick around. I think (lynch) Eidolonic is scum. "

    WTF bbobjs, whether you actually are priest or not, this looks an awful lot like you are claiming you checked Eidolonic and got a scum result. This is a really shitty post since later it seems like you are apparently claiming either not priest or that you didn't check Eidolonic.

    It's a good thing wobberjacky is straightening this all out for everyone
  21. Eidolonic

    Eidolonic Well-Known Member

    Also, having one witch lynched day one, and the other priest checked night one was incredibly demoralizing.
  22. aerinon

    aerinon Well-Known Member

    Man, I just suck at this. It took me to day 3 to figure out Wobber-bbobjs were possible lovers, but I talked myself out of it D4 only to be reminded that they really were. I flip-flopped a lot on Deceptive-jwlk, too. I should've stuck on Eido after my intial re-read of him, but I question my finding too much sometimes.... sorry Moo and Marabu.

    Martyr. I figured you weren't an important role Archon and were bluffing (but you're the Acolyte as often as CPi is the Priest, no?) so I took you off my Martyr list Night 2 which would've been better for me to sac there. I was planning on saccing at some point before the 20th just so I didn't have to deal with my out of towness. I'm glad the game ended early. Lucky shot there Eido on winning. I guess you really didn't have a choice since the lovers would've killed you otherwise.

    Kai-/jwlk/and Eido. Aren't you guys all from DLP originally? What a crazy coven...
  23. Wobberjacky

    Wobberjacky Well-Known Member

    LOLOL. I don't feel like I managed to do that at all.
  24. Eidolonic

    Eidolonic Well-Known Member

    Yeah, we are. If you read our QT we were a bit surprised, to say the least. Just was bad timing for us - Jwlk had a vacation randomly pop up on him, I had zero internet on day one, so I couldn't turbo-bus the killer, and I still don't really see what was so bad about Kai's post.

    I didn't like Koopa's pro-claim thing, either, but I think it's largely because he didn't understand how soup worked.

    I did the only thing that gave me a chance at winning, and won the coinflip. Was just kind of frustrating to be working alone - kept repeating 'two more mislynches, two more mislynches', heh.
  25. Ehrgeix

    Ehrgeix Well-Known Member

    I think that they are quite balanced (I don't know, though) and I think the only major swing is the final soupday. Basically though, if you claim or give away your role you are dead - town had given out a lot of information and had a lot of essentially walking corpses.
  26. aerinon

    aerinon Well-Known Member

    BTW. I felt 72 hours for day was a tad short even for TinyHunt. I can't remember if the first one was this fast or furious, but heck I died so early on in that one that deadlines didn't matter to me then.
  27. Arkaal

    Arkaal Member

    The problem is that without solid info roles, town needs that info to hunt witches, unless they hand themselves over like Kai- and jwlk did. But if we leak the info, witches get free kills on everyone. Since Soup is effectively "anyone revealed is dead", witches' info access (compared to town's nerfed roles) is just too high.

    I'm pretty sure you could change detective to "you learn the role of any player that dies" and remove the "cooldown" on priest checks and it wouldn't significantly impact witches. I also think losing Vigilante's info was a big hit to town, as well. Too much of town's chance for success is wrapped up in the pope right now.
  28. Ehrgeix

    Ehrgeix Well-Known Member

    Mm, for the next game I guess town having more info would be okay. Priest cd removed + lovers removed and replaced with a not-quite-vig and something else.
  29. Archon Shiva

    Archon Shiva Well-Known Member

    How about soup works more like werewolf? Say, only one extra kill per day, but lynches keep happening, and you can't skip days once you start?
  30. jwlk

    jwlk Active Member

    Okay...saying I messed up doesn't begin to cover what i've done, so i'll just hang my head in shame. And be grateful that Eido pulled this out of his ass. I didn't realize there was a killer this game, so... yah I deserved to die. Not to mention I forgot I was going away on vacation for 10 days, so I wasn't even here for the game.

    Like I said, sorry guys D: and especially Kai/Eido(though you didn't really need me :D)
  31. Ixtaccihuatl

    Ixtaccihuatl Well-Known Member

    Man, I totally thought Eido was town. :( gg, after those first two lynches I really thought town win was in the bag.
  32. Prime Intellect

    Prime Intellect Well-Known Member

    Stopping by to say that that was a shocking witch win. I was all but certain witches were boned after the first two days.

    Also, is there another hunt scheduled to start next? I was thinking I'd run another PH game with the just-updated ruleset.
  33. Ixtaccihuatl

    Ixtaccihuatl Well-Known Member

    Sounds like fun. :)

    reading through some of the qts now...

    Eido: "Not entirely sure how, but I seem to have wormed my way out of that lynch. Clearly I'm a wizard."


  34. Eidolonic

    Eidolonic Well-Known Member

    Yeah... I thought so, too.

    But then I put on my robe and wizard hat, engineered the mislynches on Moo/Marabu, and hoped like hell I guessed right on the 50% odds.
  35. Marabu

    Marabu Member

    @Eido: Clearly you pulled something really nice, especially on friday where you managed to sway well enough ppl into lynching Moo instead of you.

    <tips hat>
    Also I knew I should not have let go of the bite when I first spoke about all that "smoke-screening". I have to listen to myself more: still this game is IMO all about paranoia.

    @ Ergheix: Thanks for being a great mod. Really. It was nice to have you keep up as much as you did in both QTs and main thread. Cheers.

    @bbobjs: sorry for having danced the first night. Clearly I didn't know what I was doing.

    @aerinon: You have to admit, that in a 3 witch game, the super-gambit I was referring too would have been both risky AND unorthodox. Makes me grin all the way back to the stone age.
  36. Eidolonic

    Eidolonic Well-Known Member

    What you call smoke screening is actually how I play, as town and scum. I'm an analyst for a living, and my posts are usually just organizing my thoughts and all of the possibilities. It can resemble stating the obvious at times, but that's not necessarily a bad thing - it helps keep people on track and focused on the most likely worlds.
  37. aerinon

    aerinon Well-Known Member

    Yep. Definitely risky and unorthodox. I haven't figured out how to play this game as scum yet anyway. But I am learning the town side now.
  38. bbobjs

    bbobjs Well-Known Member

    Welp, the important thing for me to take away here is that I'm awesome and if we'd listened to me, we'd have won.

    I probably would have played better if I'd been home but I was actually gone from July 12th at 6am PDT to basically right now and played the majority of the game from a phone.
  39. bbobjs

    bbobjs Well-Known Member

    More like it's a bad thing I didn't just go balls in and get Eidolonic lynched... I'd have won.
  40. KaiDASH

    KaiDASH Well-Known Member

    i still don't even know how the entire me thing happened
  41. Ehrgeix

    Ehrgeix Well-Known Member

    Sign me up!
  42. Fry

    Fry Well-Known Member

    This hunt is giving me the urge to dig up Fryhunt and maybe actually run it.
  43. Archon Shiva

    Archon Shiva Well-Known Member

    Fryhunt looked fun. Some semi-retired players might come out of the woodwork just to get a chance to play (with) the Lunatic.
  44. Ehrgeix

    Ehrgeix Well-Known Member

    Sounds good.
  45. Fry

    Fry Well-Known Member

    What's the consensus on best number of players for forumhunts, assuming a typical "one kill per night, one lynch per day" model? This hunt seemed like it went a little too fast, but that one godawful ChocoPi hunt with 40 players among two towns was too much.
  46. aerinon

    aerinon Well-Known Member

    Consensus? Just depends on how long you want the game to go. I'd go light on the player number I think in the current environment. Probably 16-24 range.
  47. Archon Shiva

    Archon Shiva Well-Known Member

    It wasn't 40 players, it was something like 33 or so. That said, aerinon's "current environment" is basically that any game above 15-ish is asking for tons of replacements, making lower numbers quite nice.

    Maybe twin games (as bbobjs wanted to do) would work with a very low number of players.

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