Tinyhunt game 1

Discussion in 'Forum Games' started by garcia1000, Feb 18, 2011.

  1. aerinon

    aerinon Active Member

    I disagree that Desperado should be on that list. Lump makes someone an early night kill target and Desperado is more useful when better reads are had so he can kill a good target instead of a random target. I think, he did argue that desperado shouldn't kill someone this early though without a good target. I should probably look that up , but I'm too lazy.

    Here I'll take a plunge and be the first to vote AlexSierra for Lumpy-panda-friend. I feel Alex would be good with a panda too.

    I'm starting to think bbobjs is a bit crazy too. Why on earth would we kill the panda-friend if the priest supposedly checked him n1 and so we gave Lump to a townie? Just for vig info? I'm not sure at all there.
  2. bbobjs

    bbobjs Well-Known Member

    To be clear, I'm gladly willing to throw my life away if and ONLY if vigilante procs N3 and only N3... maybe N4 too, not sure. I'd still RATHER not throw my life away but if it comes down to Vigilante kills me to confirm a witch died N1 or Vigilante does nothing, I'd vastly prefer that Vigilante kill me. Even in this case, I'd still prefer Vigilante kill a strong read or a low power claim; it's only if they have absolutely no better option and want to ensure they hit a 'safe' target.

    By the way the above is true regardless of if I'm given Lump or not, I'm simply informing everyone that I'm willing to burn for the sake of removing Lump from this game if that's what you all want; I request only that if I'm burned I'm burned to Vigilante.

    I think you're underestimating the value of Vigilante info in this game aerinon.
  3. Ithaldir

    Ithaldir Member

    You're using his strawman argument as a strawman argument against himself... that's so meta.
  4. Arkaal

    Arkaal Member

    Desperado can die silently - it's not a big deal. It creates uncertainty for witches, and it's not like Desperado is a power role or anything.

    You've gone mad. Mad, I say!
  5. Arkaal

    Arkaal Member

    Here's a fun exercise that we haven't done in this game yet:

    Everyone pick the three town roles that you feel are the Most Important. By this, I mean that if this role was replaced with a Vampire Hunter, it would hurt town the most.
  6. aerinon

    aerinon Active Member

    You know, I might be. That's a possibility. The game is quite info poor for town, but I guess the witches are quite a bit poorer as well (at least compared to any game where necro is in.) So vig info lets town know if the first two days are mislynches meaning that town is in a bit of trouble, no? Is that worth burning you and putting the town one mislynch away from a witch voting block? (I'm not figuring in killer or desperado here, because that changes the numbers a bit...)

    Strangely, this whole argument only even makes sense only if you are town, even my side of it. If you are a witch, then you are crazy no matter how you look at it. So, you are either solid town or insane. Given your past play, I'm willing to retract my crazy town statement. At least your argument to starting to make sense again.
  7. aerinon

    aerinon Active Member

    1. Priest
    2. Spiritualist
    3. I want to put Martyr here since protection is very much lacking, but I can see now why Vigilante can be important in an info poor world...
  8. Ithaldir

    Ithaldir Member

    Spiritualist?
  9. bbobjs

    bbobjs Well-Known Member

    Priest, Vigilante, Spiritualist.

    Priest is an obvious first and probably ranks a tier above the other two. I don't feel an explanation is needed.

    Vigilante is effectively an unreliable version of medium. The thing that makes this role so important in this game is it's the only thing that can funnel info to town without becoming free Soup.

    Spiritualist... this might sound crazy but I think this is probably the hardest role to play in this version of the game. Potentially you learn confirmed town players and be extremely helpful in silently guiding town but you can also fuck up and fall for Occultist bait.
  10. Claytus

    Claytus Well-Known Member

    1. Acolyte
    2. Vigilante
    3. Priest

    Btw, I am *not* in support of AlexSierra-Lump. The reasons given here aren't bad... but he has a tendency to get tunnel vision in these games. I think having a player that reacts slowly have weighted votes is potentially very bad.
  11. Ithaldir

    Ithaldir Member

    Nevermind, I just figured out why Spiritualist is important. Apparently that's our only Town confirmer (other than the Priest.)
  12. aerinon

    aerinon Active Member

    Indeed, my friend.
  13. Archon Shiva

    Archon Shiva Well-Known Member

    Hey, scumtellect just softclaimed!

    Seriously,

    Dancer: Don't dance. Witches lack a necromancer and will have no idea if they killed you. Dance when you want to tell us something.

    Important roles: Priest, Vig, Spirit

    Biggest game-changer: Nobody knows who died. That's WEIRD.
  14. AlexSierra

    AlexSierra New Member

    I have no tunnel-vision thingie. I just find it hard to turn my neck.

    But okay, changing the vote to make Lump, AlexSierra friend.

    I think it might be a good move after all this theory.
  15. Prime Intellect

    Prime Intellect Well-Known Member

    Nice catch. Insane witch here.
  16. Golden119

    Golden119 Member

    Random panda-lover?
    Vote for a guy, who chooses panda-lover, and we all vote for his choice?
    Identify several ambiguous but preferred role choices, some people put themselves forward?
    etc?
  17. Archon Shiva

    Archon Shiva Well-Known Member

    I believe a conscious decision is always superior to claimed randomness. Scum will not random anyway, and if we can trust someone to roll randomly, we can trust them to decide based on their own reads and feelings.

    Allowing someone to either pick or random can be a neat trick when you need the option to obfuscate in case they are a role that knows something.

    Therefore, I oppose random Lumps.
  18. Golden119

    Golden119 Member

    Priest, Martyr, Aco.

    Because of Ehrg's post #15
  19. Golden119

    Golden119 Member

    I believe Garcia will pick random Lump if votes are tied.
  20. AlexSierra

    AlexSierra New Member

    About that roles things.

    Survivalist is obviously the most powerful role.

    But since he isn't here:
    Priest, Spiritualist, Martyr.
  21. Zejety

    Zejety Well-Known Member

    Same list here.

    Priest is obvious.
    With so few power roles, Martyr looks very valuable to me.
    Spiritualist is an other info role and with some luck can confirm the Priest (so Spiritualist > Aco IMO).

    I might underestimate Vigilante though.
  22. Golden119

    Golden119 Member

    not sure if i will be back before 48h deadline so vote alex for panda lover
  23. Ehrgeix

    Ehrgeix Well-Known Member

    Prime: why would you not want bbobjs to be lumpfriend given the info he has already revealed?

    general: I will not be around much in the next 36h~ (and have not been in the last 12h~), but should still have some time to make a small post or two.
  24. RoieTRS

    RoieTRS Active Member

    Martyr
    Priest
    Cadet
  25. RoieTRS

    RoieTRS Active Member

    I think cadet is one of the best things town can have
  26. Zejety

    Zejety Well-Known Member

    I'd prefered befriending Lump myself but bbobjs' reasoning sounds found.
    This way I at least don't have to reveal more info than he already did.

    Vote bbobjs for panda friend.
  27. Archon Shiva

    Archon Shiva Well-Known Member

    Sure, bbobjs for Zookeeper.
  28. aerinon

    aerinon Active Member

    Okay so it looks like we aren't getting anyone else bothering to campaign for the panda so I don't think there much more info we can get from this exercise. And Alex has had a couple of definitely nots. Even though I like to be different, but having slept on it, I think bbobjs for panda friend makes the most sense. Considering the seemingly inevitable priest check and willingness to go down for vigilante info, I think this likely the best move at this point just so we can get a move on and get info from lynch pressure.

    garcia is the lynch deadline 72 hrs after panda vote (I hope) or 72 hrs from the time you posted?
  29. bbobjs

    bbobjs Well-Known Member

    Alright so if I'm reading this correctly:

    7/13 for bbobjs: Arkaal, bbobjs, Ehrgeix, Ithaldir, Zejety, Archon Shiva, aerinon
    2/13 for AlexSierra: AlexSierra, Golden119
    1/13 for Prime Intellect: Prime Intellect
    3/13 Abstained: RoieTRS, Romdeau, Claytus

    Is this correct? I'm not actually sure about the timing on Lump's befriending but it seems I currently hold a majority. If anyone is reluctant about their vote they should probably make this clear now before it's too late (assuming it isn't already).

    Once everyone has solidified their Lump votes or Garcia makes an official announcement, I have a short list of things we should probably come to agreement on before everyone gets too far on their lynch trains.
  30. Ithaldir

    Ithaldir Member

    I for one don't mind, you might as well post your list now, I'm leaving in a couple of hours and wont be able to get back here before Monday.

    For those who haven't noticed, I never post or even read the forums on Sundays.
  31. garcia1000

    garcia1000 World Champion Staff Member

    bbobjs is the friend of Lump!

    From now on, bbobjs votes will count twice.

    Soft deadline will be around 44 hours from now.
    Hard deadline will be around 68 hours from now.
  32. bbobjs

    bbobjs Well-Known Member

    Short list of things worth discussing (ignore if anything feels potentially -EV to you):

    Dancer Dancing, I believe there was mild dispute in this regard but most of us were in favor of Dancer not Dancing correct?

    Judge D1, I didn't notice anyone commenting on it so I assume we're all for it?

    Direct Priest/GA coaching is generally -EV, does anyone disagree? I don't expect Priest will have too many chances at checks so this should be considered.

    Discussing Witch specific mechanics, -EV or not?

    If anyone wants to say anything about Lump, NOW is the time to do it.

    This is probably going to cast a considerable amount of doubt on me, but since I'm not Sotek I think I can get away with at least asking it. Now that I have Lump, does everyone still want to see me Priest checked? I feel it's worth asking because worst case, I get Priest checked which is what I expect would have happened had I avoided asking.

    Personally, I think I'd like to be Priest checked but it seems rather wasteful if we're also considering me as a Vigilante default. I think we should plan for one and adapt if needed.

    I removed a few points because I think they're -EV.
  33. AlexSierra

    AlexSierra New Member

    Can you post a picture of you two having a good time ?
  34. Zejety

    Zejety Well-Known Member

    I don't think we should discuss this.
  35. AlexSierra

    AlexSierra New Member

    How about you stop confusing me. :p
  36. AlexSierra

    AlexSierra New Member

    Wow, Zejety is a ninja.
  37. AlexSierra

    AlexSierra New Member

    Can we lynch Claytus now ? :D
  38. Zejety

    Zejety Well-Known Member

    As in, you've said yourself that priest coaching is a bad thing.
  39. Archon Shiva

    Archon Shiva Well-Known Member

    I agree that Dancer should stay put. It's a useful counter-claim once witches start thinking they might be dead.

    I disagree that judge-lynch D1 is a good thing. It means no many roles need to soft-claim just to be safe. With no medium, town doesn't even know who they killed! I believe the lynch target should get a chance to decide what's best before they go.

    The tiny nature of the game does change some of our assumptions. I still believe priest should be left alone. I believe, however, that a coven of three actually stands a chance of overlooking important details about various abilities which a coven of 5+ never would.

    I believe N1 priest should check whoever seems likely coven. If they have no idea, you make a good default target. Unlike an extra life, Lump does rather little to protect from lynch, and whatever Leeroy is called is actually efficient against scumlump. When did the panda get voting privileges, anyway.
  40. Archon Shiva

    Archon Shiva Well-Known Member

    Oh, should have read the newer posts.

    Lynch Claytus
  41. Romdeau

    Romdeau Member

    Wow we already voted in a lump? Just when I was about to cast my hat into the ring...so much for that idea. Hm, now onto this lynch business I suppose? Tinyhunt is indeed quite fast paced.
  42. AlexSierra

    AlexSierra New Member

    lynch Claytus

    Archon Could do that "bunch of questions thingie" to get him to slip up.
  43. Archon Shiva

    Archon Shiva Well-Known Member

    Claytus:

    1. You're one of our most experienced players, and one who has been in the witches' shoes quite often. Why aren't you taking charge more?

    2. Answering the question "which roles would hurt most if replaced by VH", you ranked the acolyte above the priest. How does that even begin to make sense?

    3. You failed to generate the tally you asked for, but what is your opinion on EC/dancer/desperado for lumpfriend?

    4. Supposing you don't want to be lynched, who would you like to divert pressure to?

    5. Please ask a few question of your own.
  44. bbobjs

    bbobjs Well-Known Member

    Agreed, I trust Priest and Vigilante will use their best judgement. So let's talk about something important then, N2 Vigilante hitting a known town is very likely to result in a guaranteed town loss.
  45. Claytus

    Claytus Well-Known Member

    I kinda tried... nobody answered my question. Then I forgot about the game because MvC3 came out;;

    OMG... why do I have to answer this question every single time we play this game. Are you just trying to get me to repeat myself for new players benefit?

    Actually seems a bit reasonable... I had like a million follow-up things I would have said had bbobjs not been voted in so fast, and had anyone actually given me that tally. But they're probably -EV now, so on to the next thing.

    Ithaldir.

    Bbobjs: Did you expect to actually get voted in as Lump? Had you not collected this many votes, who would have supported as an alternate Lump?

    Ithaldir: Do you still think lynching bbobjs is a good idea? Can you name any particular post that I should a question about?
  46. Romdeau

    Romdeau Member

    Wait, Ithaldir voted to lynch our newly elected lumper?
  47. Archon Shiva

    Archon Shiva Well-Known Member

    Maybe you just assumed the question was the same as last time...

    If we replace the priest by a VH, what's the use of the Acolyte?
  48. aerinon

    aerinon Active Member

    Yeah I think I brought this up earlier when you suggested being the default vig target. If the vig gets the opportunity to kill someone on N2 and hits a townie, then the score is likely about 5-3 (town-coven) and one more mislynch is basically game over for town. Desperado can make this worse so defaulting to no action is fine. Ditto for Dancer. Default no action is fine. NOt really sure what to do about that, I mean, earlier you willing to die to vig for info. I think 5-3 isn't insta loss though.

    (I kind of figured you'd try to get out of being default vig target, expecting this from policticians, of course. At least you think the priest should still check you, that's interesting adherence to your original platform, I'd expect a witch would be trying to get out of it more, but come to think of it, you are kind of implying that as well. Hmm, I still think bbobjs is town, or I wouldn't have voted for him, but if he's a witch I expect it'll become obvious soon.) Agreed that GA/priest coaching is -EV.

    I agree with Archon Shiva on the judge issue. Didn't want to bring it up until Lump was over. I don't like the idea of letting the judge kill roles that may be important without some defense ....

    What else? Witch mechanics? Meh. They seem fairly simple, I doubt there's much to discuss, no? Just in case it is -EV, I'll refrain anyway.
  49. Claytus

    Claytus Well-Known Member

    ^^This isn't the same as the question you originally asked, and you know it >.>
  50. Golden119

    Golden119 Member

    Dancer - Dance at your discretion afaiac.

    Judge - Letting Judge decide is better than random, if we can't agree on anything we might as well let judge do his thing.

    Lump - Don't forget you have him ;)

    Bbobjs - Between Priest Check and Vig Default, I'm comfortable with you.

    Other - No comment!

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