Tinyhunt game 1

Discussion in 'Forum Games' started by garcia1000, Feb 18, 2011.

  1. Golden119

    Golden119 Member

    I'll post what I can now as it's getting late here in the UK. Arkaal and Ehrg asked some questions, so -

    In Chocohunt (my 1st game) I thought I learned some stuff about what not to talk about as town. When I pondered the panda, it seemed that everything I had to say was -town. I thought some of you might agree, huh. In my Choco post-game comments I said I do not particularly understand this aspect of the game. My take based on Chocohunt reactions is that discussing general strategy is good and discussing specifics is bad until the general strategy is agreed. There was a post in the last game where Sotek detailed the sort of checks the Mad Scientist could make (which was fine to all) and I posted a "if you were MS who would you check?" post which got me accused of witchery for role fishing. Strategy vs Detail. So hopefully this explains where I'm coming from here. (I was the Mad Scientist in that game, btw)

    Re the "ridiculous strategy", again this was posted as an option in Chocohunt for mayor I believe, and nobody claimed it was ridiculous then.

    Re "generic -town comment". Yes I use it a lot because again I got my fingers burned in Chocohunt for not using it. If I say "are you a witch?" and "are you the priest?" to someone, one will get you lynched and the other won't, even though the answer will always be the same. I think it's silly but it seems to be necesary ... and now I've been called out for using it. So I don't know what the right answer is here. With experience I guess I'll learn when not to say it.

    Any comments on the above are welcome.

    I did explain my thought process, I didn't just spout "I agree".

    Yeah ... I wanted to go to the link and pick out the people but I had to go to a meeting and rushed the last part of that post. That's playing at work for ya ...

    I rate Rom and Roie as about the same on the scum-o-meter (which is to say barely neutral as they don't talk much) and see below for Ithaldir. Bbobjs I am wary of, but there are enough checks on him (Priest, Vig) that if he's scummy he won't get away for long.

    unvote Ehrgeix

    Assuming at least 1 witch is voting for me, I think of all the votes Ithaldir is most suspicious - it looks like an attempt to start/join a bandwagon without having any reason or even caring who was on it or why. My notes have him as suspicious from earlier too but I quickly reviewed the who-posted and nothing jumped out. I don't have time to dig now, but the vote stands.

    Prime is close behind in suspicion but I reckon if I'm here or not he'll get questioned tomorrow anyway.
     
  2. Arkaal

    Arkaal Member

    The main difference here is that we're talking about an election, rather than what a specific role should do in the existing situation. Getting people to vote, express opinions, etc, is the whole point of the public voting system. Mayor/Lump are simply a mechanical replacement for the previous D1 strategy of random voting. So trying to dissuade people from campaigning isn't exactly a pro-town move in that case.

    I'm pretty sure we covered in that game exactly why it was bad, which is why I was surprised it came up again.

    Well, I mostly take issue with use of the statement in a situation where it is not -town, because it feels like it's being used like a buzzword to sound like you're town when you're not.

    Not always: http://forums.sirlin.net/showthread.php?p=134733#post134733

    I don't actually have you high on the list for that, though. I was just giving my thoughts on Zejety's response.

    I think you are probably correct. For now, I'm suitably convinced that your posts are logically consistent with your previous experiences.

    unvote for now
     
  3. bbobjs

    bbobjs Well-Known Member

    @People wary of me: It's not so much that I'm afraid of being priest checked, it's more that I worry I'm being too selfish with town resources. Basically I wanted to see if town actually trusts me or just trusts the the fact that I'll be checked. It seems like in general town trusts the threat of check, not me so I've no regrets in using one up. That said I think we all agree Priest has SOME room to check strong reads if he does trust me... so yea I trust the Priest to make the right call.

    @Arkaal: I'll tell you in game as soon as I'm sure it won't matter.
     
  4. garcia1000

    garcia1000 World Champion Staff Member

    Hey guys!

    Soft deadline in 2 hours and 20 minutes from now.

    To clarify: At soft deadline, deadline votes turn into firm votes.

    The hard deadline will be approximately 26 hours and 20 minutes from now.
     
  5. Archon Shiva

    Archon Shiva Well-Known Member

    Okay let's get stuff moving.

    Vote lynch Golden119
     
  6. Claytus

    Claytus Well-Known Member

    Golden said exactly what I expected him to say (re: WH5 gave him a skewed view of how to play because that game was super weird, and he carried it into this game).

    Unfortunately for him, all it means is that he wants to stay alive. Given the fast approaching deadline, and the fact that he's said nothing implying he's actually important town, I'm still willing to lynch him.

    Might take a role-claim to dissuade me at this point.
     
  7. garcia1000

    garcia1000 World Champion Staff Member

    Soft deadline has passed!
    All at-deadline votes are now firm votes!


    Hard deadline in approximately 20 hours and 15 minutes from now!
     
  8. bbobjs

    bbobjs Well-Known Member

    This seems like a really bad idea at this point in the game.
     
  9. Golden119

    Golden119 Member

    I was hoping for more response overnight, so for this and other reasons despite Bbobjs reservations I have a short-list roleclaim I am prepared to make. I'll post it in a few hours unless nobody wants to hear it or another target is chosen over me. I'm happy to take my chances with Judge but not with a lynch hammer.
     
  10. Archon Shiva

    Archon Shiva Well-Known Member

    Most people can legitimately say something like this right now. You, not so much.

    I'd be perfectly happy letting judge pick between Golden and Claytus, of course.
     
  11. Ithaldir

    Ithaldir Member

    About Golden's last couple of posts, the part where he votes me (depite all I've hinted already? Come on!) irks me, but the rest of the post is kind of... neutral. Yeah... I'll unvote. Golden might or might not be town, but after the explasnation I don't think his current behavior he warrants a lynch D1. I'll be happy to get back to him after we take a look at PI tomorrow.

    As for Claytus, I've got a town read on him. So yeah, I wouldn't be happy with letting those two go to trial. In fact, Archon, according to my reads I think that's something a fellow Townie shouldn't be saying in your spot. Especially considering how many votes Claytus has at the moment.
     
  12. Ithaldir

    Ithaldir Member

    Uh... that's supposed to be "after the explanation of his current behavior I don't think he warrants a lynch D1"
     
  13. Archon Shiva

    Archon Shiva Well-Known Member

    It's D1 - nobody has any idea whichever way, as usual. bbobjs came out way too fast on lump and wasted the opportunity to ferret out scum. So we're basically stuck lynching almost random town. I'm against judge lynch, but it's already been pretty much decided it would go to that.

    I feel like Claytus is a witch aggroing on Golden. Past experience says my reads suck so bad I might as well go against them, and a Golden was getting a train together. So there. Actually, there is one more reason I voted Golden, bug I'll hold off until later today (feb 23rd, not D1) on that bit.
     
  14. Golden119

    Golden119 Member

    I was typing up my claim statement when these last posts arrived in the preview.

    unvote Ithaldir until I can go looking for his hints that I missed.

    I have about 1 more hour left online before that's probably it for the day.

    I think I want to post my claim, as I don't think it's good if I die.

    I'll post it if 2 people say they want it, or will hold it if 2 people say they don't.

    Post quick if you have an opinion.
     
  15. bbobjs

    bbobjs Well-Known Member

    I'll wait on this.
     
  16. Golden119

    Golden119 Member

    OK that counts as 2 people. If you and Lump switch to me, then I'm probably dead.

    So I'm gonna claim. I'll just post what I typed earlier, even though things have moved on a bit.

    *****


    So, there is conflicting opinion, and there's no time to discuss it further - I may not be able to post again before the deadline (I'm going out tonight, back late).

    I am going to make a roleclaim statement as I believe I will be lynched without it - you all clearly want something more, and can discuss town EV without me.

    Here goes -

    I can prove I am town if you let me.

    I am Judge, Martyr, Desperado or Dancer.
     
  17. Golden119

    Golden119 Member

    Golden119 signing off.
     
  18. Archon Shiva

    Archon Shiva Well-Known Member

    I'm pretty sure he didn't mean he was going to switch to you, but hey, claim's out now.

    It feels like a claim that's engineered to look strong but be actually quite weak. Golden claims there is a way to confirm mechanically, but since all these roles confirm differently, there is no actual way to confirm unless the claim is narrowed down to one role.

    Also, proving judge requires a claim, whereas proving martyr is best with no claim. And martyr is probably the only role in the list I'd be really sad losing, but its job is to die instead of more relevant town anyway. So meh.

    I still feel Arkaal's the witch sniffing out Goldie's role.
     
  19. bbobjs

    bbobjs Well-Known Member

    Yea, I'm slightly upset about this claim because I was't intending to switch to golden until Archon spilled his other reason for voting Golden... yea kinda really not liking that claim at all.
     
  20. Arkaal

    Arkaal Member

    Well, he basically said "I'll wait until Archon says his thing to make a decision", and you're waiting until he's gone to say your thing. So I'm not terribly surprised he took it that way.

    Of course, he was at 3 votes (out of 8) at the time, so he's clearly overreacting.

    Because I was satisfied with no claim yesterday and unvoted, to look elsewhere? I'm alright with putting him up for a judge lynch. However, I'd much rather use the remaining time we have today effectively.

    On that note, I would like to hear from Romdeau. I wish I could pull up some of his posts to talk about... but they're all quite uninteresting. So instead...

    Who is your #3 scum candidate? (Yes #3)

    What is the most interesting post made by your #3 scum candidate?

    What do you think about the current highest lynch candidates, Archon and Golden? I am especially curious about your response to Golden's claim.

    Why are you still voting for RoieTRS? Did he not satisfy you? Do you have questions for him?

    ------------------------
    Posts
    Arkaal's Vote Tally (14 Votes, 8 is majority)

    Lynch Votes:
    Archon Shiva: 4 (aerinon, bbobjs, Ithaldir, Lump)
    Golden119: 3 (Archon Shiva, Claytus, Prime Intellect)
    Prime Intellect: 1 (RoieTRS)
    RoieTRS: 1 (Romdeau)
    Zejety: 1 (AlexSierra)
    Romdeau: 1 (Arkaal)

    Abstaining: 3 (Ehrgeix, Golden119, Zejety)
    ------------------------


    Since it's likely to go to judge-lynch, I would like to remind people (Judge included) that the Judge is usually expected to select one of the top two candidates for his lynch. So if you're up there, you may want to defend yourself.
     
  21. Archon Shiva

    Archon Shiva Well-Known Member

    My other reason to vote Golden was to push someone high enough that potential fellow coven would start feeling the need to take pressure elsewhere, or else give it enough traction that hopping on would seem like a good move for scum.

    It seems to have caused the first rather than the second.

    I felt he was waiting on my thing to unvote me, not to vote Goldie. Maybe it's me, since what I had to say isn't damning evidence or anything.

    Interesting. I meant to say Claytus (the player who, you know, said Golden119 needed to claim) but clearly used the wrong name. I like the result, though.

    Let's test this Gold Martyr theory, then.

    Unvote

    Vote lynch Golden tomorrow.

    Oh yeah, I guess I gotta defend by now... I'll keep role info to a minimum, though: mislynching me tomorrow is strictly better than mislynching me today.
     
  22. aerinon

    aerinon Active Member

    Well, that was interesting. Not sure what to make of Golden's claim atm.

    This seemed kind of scummy until he unvoted while I was writing this post. I'm not going into it since its a moot point now.

    Thanks for sharing your reason, Archon. You were fishing for others' reactions to pressure on Golden. Interesting. And you made a case for not lynching you.
    I've gotta think these recent events through. In the meantime, I wouldn't mind hearing more from either Zejety or Romdeau. They've been quietish. I may switch my vote to one of them.
     
  23. Ithaldir

    Ithaldir Member

    Oh, cool, if you're actually Town this means you're... not the Eager Cadet. It's also kind of the same thing PI said, isn't it?

    Yeah, imo that defense was kinda weak. I don't want a claim from you though, how about you expand on this instead?

    If you're saying what I think you're saying it should be quite informative.
     
  24. Arkaal

    Arkaal Member

    But you can see why he might have interpreted it that way? His panic doesn't say good things, for certain - but his actions are consistent.

    Ah, that makes more sense. I wasn't really sure what you were trying to achieve there.
     
  25. Claytus

    Claytus Well-Known Member

    Hmmm.... My role reads tell me that several roles on that list are impossible for Golden. I'm not going to be more specific... but short version is I'm still fine with him dying. I'm not aggressively in support of killing him any more though, either. Got some good info there. Just leaving my vote cause I'm not sure who else to go after, or if we even have a useful amount of time left...

    I'm gonna be perfectly honest, I don't really get the Archon Shiva votes right now. Like, I'm not defending him, but he's not really pinging for me. If someone wants to explain that, I could probably be convinced to switch over.
     
  26. aerinon

    aerinon Active Member

    Isn't it better to mislynch Cadet D2 than D1? GAs can't protect Cadet is he is mislynched D1. I see only two roles that Archon Shiva eliminated by his statement and only because I don't see a difference between mislynching those roles D1 and D2. Pretty much a null defense in my book now that I've thought that through.

    Why am I on Archon Shiva? Hmm. I originally voted 1) he seems less active than usual (he's spoken on this) and 2) bbobjs also voted and I wanted to see why bbobjs voted (which bbobjs hasn't really done yet). I've stayed on because I can't decide who to switch to and he hasn't given much satisfactory defense yet as pressure has mounted. And the other lynch trains have been effective without me so far. I could easily be convinced to switch too, if anyone has strong feelings.
     
  27. bbobjs

    bbobjs Well-Known Member

    I don't think it's a good idea for me to talk about why I want to lynch Archon Shiva... and that's the most I'll say.
     
  28. Ithaldir

    Ithaldir Member

    Ok, after reading Archon's posts while looking for a good answer to Claytus' question... I don't think I want to lynch him anymore. In fact, I'll unvote. I'm gonna re-read the whole thread like ten times and then I'll come back with a final vote.

    Man, I hate D1.
     
  29. Archon Shiva

    Archon Shiva Well-Known Member

    Yeah, I get it - assuming a predisposition to be on the defensive. Which, I think, says either witch or power role. Throw in the claim, and it's witch or martyr, I'd say.

    I'm happier with what I did achieve than what I set out to, though.

    I'm saying votes went elsewhere rather than piled on - if these votes were the actions of scum, is says Golden is with them.

    That said, a pro-town Martyr, knowing they're seriously shortlisted for lynch tomorrow, would probably consider triggering on tonight's NK, in order to provide a confirmed town instead of a future mislynch. All other his roleclaims being rather more expendable in my book, I'm all for lynching Golden tomorrow.

    BTW, bbobjs is the player I trust most and Claytus I trust least right now. But bbobjs is lumping me and Clay is questioning the whole train. Interesting.

    Everyone:

    I wanted to wait until the last few hours to go into this because it completely ruins pressure, but this here is the last few hours:

    There is no Medium. Why do we even want to lynch today?

    The way I understand it, the argument for D1 lynch is that we trade a town life for data. Judge lynch means less data - since witches do not need to go into panic mode as lynch approaches, but I'm done fighting that battle.

    So we lynch some town player, lose one town power, and nobody on our team learns. We're also not keeping that info from necromancer, since he doesn't exist. We lack any Sotek or garcia-level player to make an obvious nk target, so GA protect would be pretty random as well.

    If we had a target we felt strongly about, it's be worth a shot, but most people on both me and Golden freely admit they're weakly convinced to start with. What does town gain by (mis)lynching today?

    Oh, and bbobjs is voting me because he gets a power role read and wants the coven to leave me alone tonight because I got lots of votes D1.
     
  30. Ithaldir

    Ithaldir Member

    Hmm... I think you've got a point there, if I don't find anything conclusive I might even end up voting no lynch.
     
  31. Claytus

    Claytus Well-Known Member

    ^^Yeah, no lynch is potentially a solid option. Still not sure if I trust the judge enough to go along with it...
     
  32. Prime Intellect

    Prime Intellect Well-Known Member

    Unvote

    Welp. I'll see you guys in the afterlife.
     
  33. Romdeau

    Romdeau Member

    Sigh, need to catch up on this thread. Been a bit busy recently.
     
  34. Arkaal

    Arkaal Member

    No, the argument for D1 lynch is "how is D2 different?"

    Medium is nice, sure, but we still have the Vigilante, who is (info-wise) a weaker medium. And you should not discount the value of a GA-protect, or the potential info from Spiritualist.

    No-lynch eliminates all three of those possibilities. And in a game where we are info-starved, eliminating things like that is not an improvement.

    I'd be quite happy killing Romdeau right now.
     
  35. bbobjs

    bbobjs Well-Known Member

    WTF is this no lynch shit? First of all we're giving up a ~1/4 chance of hitting a Witch and for what? A 100% dead townie and a Priest check? Like seriously this would have been maybe not such a bad thing to bring up at the start of the day but now it's like what?

    The only way I would even consider supporting this is if I though it reasonably increased the chances of giving us an extra day before end game; however at best I think it has a ~2/3 chance of having the opposite effect.
     
  36. Archon Shiva

    Archon Shiva Well-Known Member

    Priest check?

    Your reasoning makes sense, but I'm still not sure the tradeoff is pro-town.
    - Most players, it seems, agree that the cost (3 town) to get Vig info is too high for it to be a good move on purpose.
    - GAs getting a hit is pretty remote in this game, and it trades a town for a chance at saving a town, seriously.

    See, that sort of thing I can get behind - let's actually go after somebody, and observe what ensues. Not that silly "let the judge randalynch somebody who got four half-hearted votes".

    Still, you gotta make a stronger case. I'll help you on pressure, though: Lynch Romdeau.

    I recommend judge doesn't lynch unless they have strong confidence in their choice of target.
     
  37. Claytus

    Claytus Well-Known Member

    Arkaal's points are... extremely good.

    Bbobjs's stuff... not so good.

    Anyway, almost certainly too late to build support on Romdeau before deadline even if Arkaal is serious. Let's vote someone out, unless you guys just all want to cross your fingers that we have the first competent judge in any witchhunt game ever...
     
  38. Prime Intellect

    Prime Intellect Well-Known Member

    Lynch Golden119
    UGH.
    What do.
     
  39. Zejety

    Zejety Well-Known Member

    Okay, I've done a great deal of work today and hopefully will now be able to be more active than before. I'll re-read the posts of our current lynch candidates and vote before deadline.
     
  40. Zejety

    Zejety Well-Known Member

    Btw.: I don't like the no lynch plan for reasons that should be obvious but have also already been pointed out by Arkaal. But I'm also against a Judge Lynch and advocate lynching the usual way.

    That being said, PI looks very scummy to me but I fear voting for him is pointless now...
    Can someone post a tally please? :>
     
  41. Prime Intellect

    Prime Intellect Well-Known Member

    Nah, if we end up NL'ing then judge'll nail me. No need to worry about that.
     
  42. Romdeau

    Romdeau Member

    OK before anyone gets any weird ideas, I'll just say that lynching is me is BAD for town.
     
  43. Ithaldir

    Ithaldir Member

    It hasn't changed much.
    And it's not looking good considering how close we are to deadline.

    ------------------------
    Ithaldir's (stolen from Arkaal's last) Vote Tally (14 Votes, 8 is majority)

    Lynch Votes:
    Archon Shiva: 3 (aerinon, bbobjs, Lump)
    Golden119: 2 (Claytus, Prime Intellect)
    Prime Intellect: 1 (RoieTRS)
    RoieTRS: 1 (Romdeau)
    Zejety: 1 (AlexSierra)
    Romdeau: 2 (Archon Shiva, Arkaal)

    Abstaining: 4 (Ehrgeix, Golden119, Ithaldir, Zejety)
    ------------------------
     
  44. Zejety

    Zejety Well-Known Member

    That what a townie would say. Or a witch.
     
  45. Romdeau

    Romdeau Member

    So what happened with Golden? People who are abstaining, why are you abstaining?
     
  46. aerinon

    aerinon Active Member

    I'm going to go ahead and vote Romdeau since I like playing with active people more than inactive, more or less. So catch up on the thread and lets us know what you think. We're probably going to judge lynch at this point, but you've been quiet so let's hear what you think.

    Ask and ye shall receive:

    -------------------------------
    Who Posted
    Aerinon’s Vote Tally (14 votes, majority is 8)

    Lynch votes:
    Prime Intellect: 1 (RoieTRS)
    RoieTRS: 1 (Romdeau)
    Zejety: 1 (AlexSierra)
    Golden119: 2 (Prime Intellect, Claytus)
    Archon Shiva: 2 (bbobjs, Lump)
    Romdeau: 3 (Arkaal, Archon Shiva, aerinon)

    Abstaining: 4 (Zejety, Ehrgeix, Golden119, Ithaldir)
    -------------------------------
     
  47. aerinon

    aerinon Active Member

    Golden has semi-claimed and pressure has dropped off a bit. Sheesh more posts, gotta go, but I'll try to get back tonight for the finale (if there is one)
     
  48. Zejety

    Zejety Well-Known Member

    Okay, if I have to decide between the current lynch trains, I choose to vote Romdeau for reasons connected with different people's votes.
     
  49. Prime Intellect

    Prime Intellect Well-Known Member

    Hm. I still want to lynch Golden for some odd reason...
    I wish this nagging feeling would go away.
    Dunno who else to look at, yet.
    I'll post again later tonight.
     
  50. Ithaldir

    Ithaldir Member

    Ok, I'll bite. On a scale of 1 to 10, how bad is it?
     

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