Yomi expansion beta 3.1

Discussion in 'Yomi: Fighting Card Game' started by Sirlin, Jun 2, 2012.

  1. NoahTheDuke

    NoahTheDuke Active Member

    The problem, though, is that if we disallow dodges specifically and then at a later date create a character with no blocks or no throws, we'll be forced to revise Flagstone Tax.
  2. matt.lashof

    matt.lashof Well-Known Member

    The discard pile version also gives you a guarantee that it won't likely be used in the first few turns. You could use that in balance tuning. If you give it an ability that would otherwise be too good early, it can still work.
    NoahTheDuke likes this.
  3. Claytus

    Claytus Well-Known Member

    Is this actually going to happen, though? You can't functionally remove an entire fragment of the R-P-S cycle in the game. The only reason it works on Rook is that the dodge/block cards serve the same function (and his special blocks are basically dodges that don't say "dodge", anyway). Yeah, maybe for the same reason a character with a bunch of dodges, but no blocks could work... but it doesn't seem like all that much is being given up? If Sirlin has made it through 20 characters without thinking this was important enough to do already, then outlawing it for the future isn't necessarily that big a deal...
  4. Sirlin

    Sirlin Steward of the Realm Staff Member

    There's way too much attention on that flagstone tax thing. It's fine to assume there won't be a character in the future missing blocks or attacks or throws. It's totally lame to have Flagstone Tax be "choose an option that is in their deck" (I mean seriously now) and just as bad to mention "Rook" on Flagstone tax. It seems fine as it is. I mean maybe it can be way nerfed and require the card type to be in the discard pile, but I'm not sure that's necessary.
  5. major_shiznick

    major_shiznick Well-Known Member

    Some folks were playtesting BBB last night, and we wanted to clarify something on Robo Headbutt. If it hits as your combat card, do you immediately start the next combo (7,X>Y) or do you finish the first one and start the next (7>X, Y>Z)? First one makes more sense to me, but it was a wee ambiguous. Also, second one has the potential for redonk damage into KD and range that I'm not sure is really intended (7>A, K for 22, KD, and Range).

    Related, can 7* be followed up by Can't Combo moves? Seems like it could with the current wording.
  6. jelyman

    jelyman Active Member

    I like this for flagstone tax for one reason. You can target a joker. I think it's kinda cool flavor for this kinda evil politician to be able to get away with more.
  7. Mililani

    Mililani Well-Known Member

    That's moving in on Menelker's gig though.
    Joker discarding has to be Menelker exclusive I think. Also you more or less run into the Rook Dodge issue of easy free damage.
  8. perinigricon

    perinigricon Member

  9. Atma

    Atma Active Member

    Why not just roll Block/Dodge together for purposes of Flagstone Tax. I mean, is there really a big functional difference between them here?

    "Name Attack, Throw, or Block/Dodge, etc..."

    Worst case then you errata it in the FAQ.
  10. CrystalChaos

    CrystalChaos Moderator Staff Member

    Yes it is a significant difference, because block/dodge allows the target to choose to discard one of most cards.
  11. Choke Artist

    Choke Artist Well-Known Member

    Could just be changed to attack/throw. I mean, Quince only wants to stop harm from befalling people in his kingdom.
    Most characters are fine to cough up a dodge, except the ones that really need them (Mid, BBB, etc.) and would probably pay the life to keep them, anyways.
  12. Scarbo

    Scarbo Well-Known Member

    Current wording of BBB's T is:
    "During the powerup phase, you may return a face card from your discard pile to your hand, then discard this Salvage Components if you are not at Range."

    A concern was raised that this doesn't really say what to do with the card while at Range, so maybe a better wording is:
    "During the powerup phase, you may reveal this card to return a face card from your discard pile to your hand, then discard this Salvage Components if you are not at Range.
    Targie likes this.
  13. Sirlin

    Sirlin Steward of the Realm Staff Member

    The answer to "why not JUST [red flag word] combine block/dodge on Flagstone Tax?" That was an idea, then someone said "why not JUST eliminate dodge entirely from the choice, rather than make it even easier to avoid by combining it?" And yeah made sense, so we did that.

    Robo headbutt, when you hit with it, at that exact moment they are stunned. Now, start a new combo if you want.

    Regarding "revealing" Salvage Components, yeah that makes sense. It should be as Scarbo said.
  14. Mililani

    Mililani Well-Known Member

    Zane should have 87 health.
    Aerodynamik, saska and Inkstud like this.
  15. Shiri

    Shiri Well-Known Member

    Just wanted to reiterate my post from an old Persephone thread. I think she actually benefits from the normal draw thing more than some other characters so maybe that helps if that rule goes through, but I thought I was getting at the core of the problem here so maybe it'll be useful.
  16. garcia1000

    garcia1000 World Champion Moderator (old) Staff Member

    I think Persephone HP maybe closer to Valerie than Setsuki, in flavour terms, so maybe 80 HP? No idea
  17. Bob199

    Bob199 Well-Known Member

    What Shiri said.
    After a few days of testing her, Perse is not that bad. She wants to play rushdown (rushdown hp/atk & throw speed/J & Q) but her way of gaining cards requires her to slow down as compared to other rushdown characters.

    Sets - Dump hand, get a new one
    Val - Dump combos, get A's
    Jaina - Atk, buyback
    Gwen - Innate
    Perse - Do combo, spend next couple turns empty throwing/dodge -> throw/blocking/mc

    I can best compare it with playing block Val, instead of maintaining constant pressure, you give your opponent opportunities to disrupt you and get back into the game. Since throws are much easier to get around than blocks and attacking being encouraged, it makes Perse's recovery that much weaker.

    I did some testing with the changes to her J/K that Shiri proposed and it made her K seem much more available as a combat option and made her feel like she was able to keep up pressure without seeming overwhelming. The throw buff could also work if the J/K buff proves to be too good.
    As for her hp, in the games that I have played, it has not been that much of an issue.
  18. garcia1000

    garcia1000 World Champion Moderator (old) Staff Member

    I agree, more damage somehow. 7 HP throws, 9 HP King? King already is 8 damage and knocks down.
  19. Lofobal

    Lofobal Well-Known Member

    I notice Zane is not on your list. Do you not feel he is rushdown? If not, why not?
  20. Bob199

    Bob199 Well-Known Member

    The problem with the king right now is not the damage, it is the fact that it can not be used easily enough to deal the damage in the first place. Yes, an 8 dmg K is relatively weak but all rushdown K's are. An 8 dmg K that is slow (8.8) and an opener which is antisynergetic with her inate is just a bad card for her. Making it a linker/ender would fix both of these problems, although as a linker, it may be too good.
  21. Bob199

    Bob199 Well-Known Member

    I used them as examples as I have the most experience/most familiarity with them. Haven't done much testing with Zane yet
  22. CrystalChaos

    CrystalChaos Moderator Staff Member

    Persephone king is 8.4 speed btw.
  23. garcia1000

    garcia1000 World Champion Moderator (old) Staff Member

    Maybe some of these would help?

    1) Throws: 6 damage -> 7 damage. Reason: Needs more damage.
    2) K throw: 8 damage -> 9 damage. Reason: Needs more damage.
    3) 70 HP -> 80 HP. Reason: More Valerie than Setsuki.
  24. Thelo

    Thelo Administrator Staff Member

    Expansion 3.1 is now on the server.
    Lofobal likes this.
  25. garcia1000

    garcia1000 World Champion Moderator (old) Staff Member

    Here is a Persephone suggestion based on a Dred idea:

    Wild ride: Throw, Speed 11.0, Can't Combo, 5+5+5+5+5 damage (pump with any four cards).
    NoahTheDuke likes this.
  26. DredNicolson

    DredNicolson Well-Known Member

    My version was 6+6+6+6+6 because I don't hate damage.

    Basically Summon Suffering in Yomi form.
    NoahTheDuke likes this.
  27. Sirlin

    Sirlin Steward of the Realm Staff Member

    No pump moves can knock down.
    NoahTheDuke likes this.

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