Yomi: Shadows Expansion

Discussion in 'Yomi: Fighting Card Game' started by Gavisi, Sep 29, 2010.

  1. Gavisi

    Gavisi Well-Known Member

  2. Zejety

    Zejety Patreon Supporter

    Wow things are happening quick now. Yomi hasn't even been released ^^
    Are there any Flash Duel drafts?
  3. vivafringe

    vivafringe Moderator Staff Member

    Random, unordered thoughts:

    - These decks are awesome.

    - Does the Clockwork soldiers ability work the turn you hit them with A?

    - I predict that, as printed, it will almost never be correct for Troq to use his innate. Maybe against another grappler...

    - If a player wants to return an A to his hand during the powerup phase and Menelker wants to remove the A with Into the Oblivion, what happens? The rules state that the people power up "at the end of the turn," so it's ambiguous.

    - It seems OP that Menelker's Bonecracker can make people discard Jokers, especially when he has his 55 damage dodge -> AAAA.

    - It really seems like Joker should work against Dodge -> Mistress's Command. Maybe make it do 1 damage and have a "If Mistress's Command does damage..." clause. In general, Mistress's Command seems bonkers and too good. Since it can't be jokered, I think it would be strong and used if it was 8.2 speed, let alone 0.2.

    - I don't like how Persephone's Q is strictly better than Valerie's A (barring the fact that Valerie can search for her A or speed it up), in a similar way that I don't like how Mistress's Command obsoletes Valerie's Burst of Speed in PS.

    - There are a lot of low HP characters that do tons of damage (Gloria obviously doesn't count, but Persephone, Menelker and Gwen all do). This strikes me as a bad direction to be taking Yomi, as it's going to reduce the number of actual combats and increase variance. I think Setsuki is already pushing it in terms of how much variance should be in the game, and the three mentioned characters all have more. I mean, c'mon, Menelker is a dragon - he should have more HP than a chibi-ninja.

    - There are too many characters that have straight up AAAA moves. Only one character had it in Yomi1, and I think that precedent should carry over. The AAAA all-in moves are cool and splashy, but easy to overdo. Maybe Gwen and Gloria should have AAA moves instead?

    - Zane's innate seems half pointless, since characters that are KD already can't dodge. Am I missing something here?

    - Do you get to continue your combo with Crash Bomb if it is interrupted?
  4. Majidah

    Majidah Well-Known Member

    This seems like scrub talk. ;)
  5. Lofobal

    Lofobal Well-Known Member

    I know a lot of these answers, so I hope I'm not being impolite by saying them.

    I don't think that's true, but even if it were, I think he's so powerful it doesn't matter.

    Whoever has less life gets to do whatever first. This is also the case when Menelker wants to bonecracker and the other guy wants to use a post-draw ability before it gets ripped away.

    That's the entire point of it. I agree it's pretty scary, though.

    Hmm, that would be weird, but maybe I agree. I do think that it needs to not let her use the other guy's abilities, because that makes Jaina cry.

    I hadn't thought of it that way. I do sort of think Val's A has a different feel because she gets them so easily, but you're right about it being a thing to consider.

    I think Gwen has less variance because her innate lets her form a very stable plan and she gets to rip up the cards that would mess up what she's trying to do. It's an interesting point overall, though.

    Menelker is in human form for this. In dragon form he could probably fight 3 to 4 people at once. ;)
    You are mistaken. The first set originally had a lot more AAAAs, but a bunch of them were replaced to make room for other things. There is no precedent to follow because some of these decks predate those changes. I do like that the original does not have a ton of AAAAs and I feel that the expansion could stand to shed a couple. Vendetta's in particular feels out of place to me.

    edit - I could get behind changing Gwen's and Gloria's. Gwen's deck is heavily based on Menelker's, but it doesn't seem particularly important for it to strictly adhere to that. I like Zane's AAAA and Menelker's is iconic (it's actually even on the rules sheet if you look carefully).

    I imagine the wording predates the current KD effect.

    In the reminder text, it just says, "then Crash Bomb deals 5 damage," so it seems like no.
  6. Thelo

    Thelo Administrator Staff Member

    Actually, I am fairly sure that the powerup phase happens completely before anyone gets to play "at the end of turn" abilities. I can't find the source for that ruling but I am 95% certain of it.
  7. garcia1000

    garcia1000 World Champion Moderator (old) Staff Member

    Lum's poker flourish / powerup
  8. Sirlin

    Sirlin Steward of the Realm Staff Member

    Version 1.2 update.

    Some typos, clarifications in ability text, and missing data fixed.

    Vendetta AAAA for 50 changed to AAA for 30
    Vendetta ace speeds slowed down
    Vendetta Acrobatics requres cards of same suit
    Vendetta throws all speed 9.2

    Gloria, face cards slowed down.
    Goria innate changed to new thing that will trigger less often.

    M.Persephone, innate changed to new thing
    M.Percephone, 6 combo points changed to 5 combo points
    M.Percephone, Mistress's Command deals 1 damage and can be prevented with Joker.
  9. Bridger

    Bridger Member

    FYI one side of Zane's Q (Righteous Zeal) says that it knocks down (help text) but does not have the icon for knockdown.
  10. Gavisi

    Gavisi Well-Known Member

    The text file in the first post has been updated with 1.2
  11. Gavisi

    Gavisi Well-Known Member

    Looking over stuff:

    New Gloria innate is an interesting decision that shouldn't happen too often. Hopefully now she actually has to fight, and her now slower attacks should make that fair.

    Onimaru is Lum without the gambling. He needs some kind of total redesign to make him a different character. I know he is based off an older character so I'm not blaming anyone for the overwhelming similarities, but he really needs to change to...something else (something with war tactics?)

    Vendetta's Acrobatics feels like old boring Jokers. We'll see how the nerf changes things, but my guess is that even if he ends up balanced, he will be the single most hated character in the entire game, by a large margin. Also he's a douchebag.

    I know Troq's innate is the way it is because he used to be OP, so he got an almost worthless innate to balance him. But we can do better than that. Give him some kind of innate that's actually meaningful, and then tone down his other stuff if necessary.
  12. Zeede

    Zeede New Member

    I'm just amazed that there's an expansion for a game that hasn't even been released yet :eek:

  13. Blinky

    Blinky Member

    I've been playing around with the new characters, pretty fun, although i feel alot of the new characters overshadow the older ones. Anyway, my thoughts:

    Quince: I find that if he wins or not is dependant purely on what cards you draw rather than your ability to outplay the opponent. When he activates mirror most people end up revealing dodge with something else. Maybe if he had less dodges, making his innate less over the top.

    Onimaru: Very similar to lum, although I don't know what to suggest.

    Gloria: Her new ability seems quite strong, which I'm guessing wasn't the intention. You could discard any 2 cards, and get a 7/10 and use the ability, so even if the 4 isnt used as much triggering it can lead to bigger pay off (getting a 7 and instantly playing it will heal for 12 for that turn). I'd probably say it would be better to make it so you have to trade in 2 hearts for an effect, making hearts the healing cards. Also her throws seem to be the worst in the game by quite a bit. A naked throw only does 5 damage, and on average she can only add 4 damage to that. Maybe have something to make her throws less pathetic and maybe about args level.

    Only a few things off the top of my head.
  14. Lofobal

    Lofobal Well-Known Member

    To quote a wise man, "Yeahhhhh ,you made me happy!"

    I feel he needs a strong new gimmick to help set him apart, but not that he needs a redesign. Some good examples of this would be Arg getting Bubble Shield or DeGrey getting Moral High Ground.

    I think that's working as intended. :)

    As far as I know, the giant growth potions are a plot point as well, so the innate is important there. I also don't think it's as bad as you guys say, and don't think "used to be" is the proper phrase to describe him being overpowered. ;)

    People said the same thing about Setsuki, and it's not true there either. If people are doing dodge and throw, throw him. If they are doing dodge and attack, block or dodge. I don't agree that he has too many dodges, but sure, maybe. It's also possible that his throws are too fast to reliably counterthrow, in which case they need to be slowed down.

    I think Quince is difficult to play with and against, and that it will take a while for people to get a good grasp on him. His biggest weakness is fast rushdown. Rook seems like a hard match-up, but at least he has KDs to stop Rock Armour. Gwen seems like a nightmare match-up, particularly because her 7 lets her get out of KDs.
  15. DredNicolson

    DredNicolson Well-Known Member

    After talking with Sirlin, I've realized that many of Gloria's cards have missing/incorrect data on them. At first I thought these were just his own revisions, but in actuality he took my original design with no changes at all. So it's possible that incorrect/misaligned data feeds in the coding are making her cards display incorrectly.

    Major problems:
    Ace ability doesn't display on the Ace.
    Sun and Moon super move displays as a throw when it's really an attack.
    10* has a throw side when it's really a mono-block.
    Throws display as costing 3 CP when they really cost 1.
    Some dodges are on incorrect cards.

    Here is a copy of the original .txt file I sent Sirlin for reference.

    ...then add in the changes in the 1.2 expansion to get what her deck is supposed to be right now.
  16. Blinky

    Blinky Member

    I may be overreacting with the Quince thing, but it does seem quite hard to counter him (of course its supposed to be like this, but considering he has many kd options to get into it, it isnt unreasonable to think he could potentially go back into it straight away if he lands kd)

    Also, that gloria thing changes alot. Hopefully the correct version will be on the server soon, although I will miss throw sun and moon. Although I still feel that gloria's innate may need looking at.
  17. TheMadKing

    TheMadKing Member

    After playing a bit:

    ~Gwen and Menelker need to be different in a big way. I love love LOVE using Gwen, and it bothers me that her face cards are also Menelker's (except worse half the time) and her aces are Menelker's as well (except better any time she has a 7). It doesn't make a lot of sense that someone who isn't Menelker gets Raging Demon, so something should be done.

    My ideas on that:
    -The more insane face cards should be Gwen's; Menelker gets the added advantage of getting a draw and disrupting the opponent when he lands half of his, so maybe he shouldn't have a speed 0.0 9+ any 2 pump.
    -The 12+12 Ace side fits Gwen a bit better on a gut level for me, and the Raging Demon should be Menelker's. The other two should be changed around a bit.

    ~Quince is... weird. The problem for me isn't that he's unbeatable with a Mirror up (the only true inescapable sequence is Gold Burst + Throw), it's more that you're not playing Yomi anymore when you have one; all of the reading immediately shifts to your opponent, and at that point the only thing Quince is doing is playing odds. On the flip side, you're playing super-Yomi when you DON'T have a mirror up since your deck is pretty crippled otherwise, so maybe that's OK?

    ~Vendetta is probably fine at this point, he has the same main weakness Argagarg does (no attacks faster than 2.2 without an Ace). He also has his good cards packed pretty densely at his faces, his 10, his 7, his 2, and landing really slow throws (with pretty average Aces), so for right now I'd leave him alone.

    ~Zane needs at least one 3-card straight, he's mister rushdown and should be getting Aces without having to pitch pairs (which, well, doesn't fit his flavor at all).

    ~Onimaru needs a new innate, and I liked the idea of the Presence innate from the old topic (if you bluff and your opponent doesn't continue his combo, you may add a non-joker, non-ace card to your hand from your discard pile).
  18. Lofobal

    Lofobal Well-Known Member

    Quince's throws are listed as 2cp when they should be 3cp. His AAA does 9 chip damage, which I think is a cool idea, but seems problematic when he can KD you then do dodge/AAA for at least 9 guaranteed damage.

    @Blinky: He needs to win another combat and have another Ace. That seems costly enough to me. His KD options are also his best options in Mirror form, so if you're knocking him out of it (as opposed to him using Righteous Zeal)

    On first inspection seems like Miss is going to have trouble building up for combos with her new innate.

    On Onimaru, he seems like a boring ground pounder, but apparently (Sirlin said) that's the point of him. I think that if I wanted to do what he does, though, I could just play rushdown Lum. I don't really feel like Onimaru is really filling a gameplay niche, even if I appreciate that it's good to have a couple straightforward characters. Also, his K is so so awful. Compare it to his J. It's worse in every way until I have like three of them, and man, I'd rather just be throwing it away to get back real cards.

    edit - I guess my main problem with Onimaru is that if his interesting part is going to be the fine mechanical aspects, then those need to be more interesting. The K is the biggest example of this issue.
  19. Lofobal

    Lofobal Well-Known Member

    Agree that Gwen doesn't need Demon. It's more iconic and impressive if only Menelker has it.

    IMO Quince with mirror is still playing Yomi just like Jaina is still playing when she has a 7-trap or when she decides to repeatedly use her Q. I don't think it's a problem.

    Vendetta still seems too strong to me, but the nerfs are a good start.

    I got the impression that Zane's concept was "no chains because he uses his linker throws." I think he can rush down fine without lots of Aces anyways.

    I think I'd need to play that proposed innate to see if I like it.
  20. vivafringe

    vivafringe Moderator Staff Member

    I'll have to play more with Quince to figure out if he's fine or not. I agree with MadKing that it feels like you are just throwing down the best 2 cards rather than actually playing Yomi, but that might just be from a lack of experience. Joker + Throw does seem pretty lame, though. Whatever the case, I am pretty sure Jaina will be a nightmare matchup, because she can fuck up his option select with her own.

    Rules clarification: if I have Mirror Shield up and hit with Righteous Zeal, can I immediately play a new Patriot Mirror? From the comments it seems like "no," but I want to make sure.

    Under the current ruling of Mistress's Command, the Command pops Arg's Bubble Shield AND takes over his turn. This is probably a bad thing.
  21. Mr. Yellow

    Mr. Yellow Member

    About Zane not having any chain combo normal that can net him aces, i find it fitting. He is a guy who hates order and that can be easily seen on his normal cards. Each character usually has some order with the colours, like dodges on lower number cards and throws on higher number, usually broked up by abilities.
    Not this guy, they are all over the place.

    Also, his aces are pretty average and shouldn't worry much about getting those. He can already do lots and lots of damage from his normals at the get-go (love those 9s).
  22. Lofobal

    Lofobal Well-Known Member

    I do not think Jaina's 7* will be particularly bad for Quince. I mean he obviously doesn't like it, but I hardly think it warrants "nightmare matchup." Not sure if the Joker thing is a problem and what to do about it if it is.

    No. Righteous Zeal does not KD, even though the document at the start of the thread says it does. I think it may have been written as KDing in an earlier build, but that's fixed now.

    I don't see how Bubble Shield wouldn't stop the mindslaver. Command only triggers if it deals damage and bubble prevents the damage.

    edit - Miss's Bare Your Soul does not have a timing. I assume it's supposed to be post-draw?
  23. vivafringe

    vivafringe Moderator Staff Member

    My mistake on Persephone's A - I was again going off of the text file in the OP.
  24. Blinky

    Blinky Member

    I now have concrete evidence that Gloria's new ability is more brokenly good.

    Just played a game with Mr. Yellow, I was Gloria and he was Onimaru. I won the game by getting back my 7H with my innate, and playing it. He didn't get many throws, but as I had sanctuary, I always had a block, and was healing 12 hp per turn (Onimaru can only do a maximum of 16 with throws, using 3 cards). I could have stalled if he got more throws. I did damage only using pain mirror and won. I also only drew 1 sanctuary card, meaning if I drew more I could have build up my hand further and healed more.

    Her innate needs changing.
  25. Lofobal

    Lofobal Well-Known Member

    I don't think there was any doubt that her innate is broken when combined with her abilities. Sirlin was already talking about fixing it. I think we should be testing it assuming that doesn't work, for now, to see if it's even worth salvaging.

    edit - Actually I come across as discouraging testing in this post. Sorry. I am glad we have data to support this, even if I think we didn't need the data. :)
  26. CWheezy

    CWheezy Well-Known Member

    I like zane, he doesn't seem too good.

    4 way mixup is funny, but can never knock down. Maybe make some of his slower throws do that?
  27. Alhazard

    Alhazard Well-Known Member

    Did anyone test if vendetta gets rolled over for free by troq, rook, and midori like old sim?

    EDIT: Also when i pleaded menelker to have 5 CP from 6, I also thought his J and throw starter would have 2 CP so he can still do a 3 card straight off a throw. Maybe it doesnt matter, but makes him a lot weaker than i wanted to be.
  28. CWheezy

    CWheezy Well-Known Member

    I am pretty sure vendetta still good against them.

    Troq wasn't that impressive when I played him. I mean his king is good, but I dunno :/
  29. garcia1000

    garcia1000 World Champion Moderator (old) Staff Member

    I think Percephone's MC needs to be slower a bit. 0.2 is really fast.
    Also, her T* ability is boring. Like Jaina's fiery temper, you just use it in endgame. I was thinking something like

    "If your opponent is knocked down, you may name: attack/throw/block/dodge. Your opponent discards a card of such thing if he is able to, otherwise he reveals his hand. Draw a card" This is a good MTCosta suggestion that I support
  30. Beikoku Taichou

    Beikoku Taichou Well-Known Member

    Word on the street is Bal Bas Beta is bad, and I am inclined to agree.

    I am not sure if you intended to copy my rough draft directly or not, but there are some things on there that would help him.

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4391601/BBB take 1.html

    His K "Cog Grinder" was supposed to be a special throw... Specifically it was his take on Dhalsim's noogie.

    He also has a special dodge on the other side of his K.

    He generally has issues of cracking turtles though... His normals are all pretty slow and his throws are bad. Maybe he can have buffed throws.

    Wheezy suggested changing his innate so it also triggers if a normal attack is blocked. I am not sure if that is overkill or not. (Or if it would have the effect that you just never block against him.)
  31. brainof7

    brainof7 Member

    I agree sort of on BBB stuff. I have played only about 5 games with him, but I was able to beat blinky's Gloria after a really really long fight. I only lost 3 or 4 combats the entire game though, and dealt roughly 150 damage total or something because of how much she healed. Better throws would be nice, I really like what throw characters can do. Also, it is a good thing that he can't starve characters out very easily with his normals, and they all trade 1 for 1 in card advantage terms so it is pretty even that way IMO. Just needs a little boost to get him out of the bottom of the B tier.

    Coincidently, I played Midori and he seems a lot better now that more characters want to be gimmicky instead of just play the game straight up. Powerful KD normal throws are really good at that :)

    Also, played a bit of Menelker. IDK if his innate is mandatory or not, should just be may so if you forget you forget (from what I remember it just says do this). He could use a slight damage nerf on a few moves I think, It is too good against low HP characters, he just straight up walks over them if he can get 2 aces once in the game
  32. DredNicolson

    DredNicolson Well-Known Member

    One solution would be to have Gloria's abilities RFG on use. That let's the current innate remain unchanged while removing the broken part. It's a quick and dirty fix though, and doesn't feel 'elegant' (whatever that word means anymore :) ).

    It's also possible that the post-facto cantrip on the 7* could be taken off. This was a suggested buff back in her earliest forms, but nowadays it might not be all that necessary.


    A possible alternative to Gwen's current Dreadlands Portal could be:

    AA - Throw - Speed 6.6 - (3 or 4) CP - Starter - 28 Damage

    This is actually the 'raging demon variant' I came up with for her before.
  33. ChumpChange

    ChumpChange Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Gwen feels relatively balanced so far, while it's likely she'll need tweaks in the future she doesn't seem blatantly underpowered or overpowered.

    She seems to step on Quince though, what with not getting knocked down.
  34. Lofobal

    Lofobal Well-Known Member

    Alh said he feels balance talk is rather premature. I mostly agree, but the original V was pretty blatantly broken. He's right that we should be testing V against grapplers, though. Speaking of which, I know everyone is all excited about the new characters, but we really need to be testing them against the 1e characters to gauge their power properly. I also think that we need some time to figure out how to play the new characters optimally. (see: Rook)

    I do feel that it's important to be fixing things that blatantly aren't working as intended or have the wrong feel to them, like Gloria's, uhm, everything. I sort of feel like the current Gwen is stealing Menelker's thunder, which is a problem considering how important he's supposed to be.
  35. Gavisi

    Gavisi Well-Known Member

    Yeah, even if Gwen's face cards are changed to be different, her and Menelker have the same feel of "low HP high CP guy who does massive combos". Also compare Shardswarm and Bonecracker. I am inclined to say Menelker should be changed because I really like Gwen's design, but Menelker is more important to the story so he should be whatever theme Sirlin intends for him (btw, Bonecracker hitting a Joker feels perfectly like a taboo, playing to win, abusing a glitch kind of move. It is so perfect for him)

    It would be cool if we could avoid Removed From the Game effects entirely. It's a fine mechanic, Magic makes good use of it, but creating a whole new zone just for one or two characters seems unnecessary. It's just another complication.

    I was thinking:

    Persephone Innate: On Your Knees - If you end your combo with a normal attack, your opponent is knocked down.

    Right now her innate feels kind of lame, because you have to KD them, they have to play a block, and then you have to win the 50:50 crossup. And sure you have Power Whip to score a KD, but otherwise you have to not follow up a throw, which is lame when you could put that 3 CP to use. This innate also works well with the Pleasure or Pain change I suggested ("If your opponent is knocked down, discard this card, name attack/throw/block/dodge, your opponent discards a card of that type or reveals their hand to prove they can't, then draw a card"). Altogether she's a control character who forces you to the ground, tells you what you have to discard, and controls your turn. I like it.
  36. CWheezy

    CWheezy Well-Known Member

    Ok I will rook against new guys
  37. Gavisi

    Gavisi Well-Known Member

    Today Vendetta played a Rewind Time and 3 Acrobatics against me asdfsdjfgkjfhjgdfkljads
  38. Gavisi

    Gavisi Well-Known Member

    Also I think Zane innate was temporary anyway but an innate that helps when you KD, when you only have ONE card that can KD, is...wat.
  39. Majidah

    Majidah Well-Known Member

    His throws can still knock down, and his throws are really good. In addition, cross up + mixup normals + very fast throws makes him positively terrifying. If he had more KD face cards he'd be basically unbeatable. His signature combo is Fast throw--> threaten normal attack + J reset. If he doesn't have the jack he just blocks and you feed him a card.

    If Zane needs any improvement he might could use +1 damage on his throws or slightly more flexible, usable Aces (change Max anarchy to (20(2)+10+10 maybe) since he has no way to power up for them and they sort of suck.

    More troubling to me is Onimaru who is really, really boring. Everything he's made of either seems like something from another character (Lum, Geiger, Jaina), or seems like it removes interaction (Final Authority), or is clockwork soldiers which is awesome but is a very weak version of great pandamonium.
  40. Gavisi

    Gavisi Well-Known Member

    Zane's throws do not KD. Check the game.
  41. Blinky

    Blinky Member

    I have been playing older characters against the newer ones recently, although I'll need to play a bit more to get anything worth noting.

    Although Rook does seem to walk on Quince. Quince struggles to win combat, and when he does does nothing like what Rook hits. Also Rook can rock armour his patriot mirror, destroys him in a throw contest.

    A few thoughts for some characters (feel free to shoot them down if you don't think they will work):

    Percephone: Maybe make MC (Ace) slower than a DP, like between 1.0 and 2.0. Also I think it would be cool if "On your knees" (Ace) Kded, as that also has great synergy with her similarly named innate. (Watching some people play around with percephone, will be interesting to see if anything like this works). Potention 10 idea: "after the draw phase, you may discard this card to draw 2 cards, unless the opponent discards an ace"

    Gloria: Maybe if she has an innate that can only trigger past a certain hp threshhold. That would prevent stalling all game, although im not sure what the effect could be. I think 7 could work as "if you successfully block with this card, gain x hp". Also unconditional damage on Ace seems a bit non-yomi, maybe change it to the beginning of the turn, and only take effect if you win that combat.

    Zane: Only his J knocks down, so maybe have another way to knock down, like AA (would make it more useful). Either that or give him a new innate.

    Just some ideas, if they suck feel free to say. Hopefully at least 1 thing will sound good :)
  42. garcia1000

    garcia1000 World Champion Moderator (old) Staff Member

    Percephone AA should knock down

    It is called 'On Your Knees' right

    Also T* and 9* turn out to be boring in actual play
  43. PhantomGlider

    PhantomGlider New Member

    Idea to make Percephone's 9* less boring: you get to swap cards in their hand and deck, so you can be like "You're going to have to wait a while for that Joker. Have this 5 instead." This is more powerful, so maybe you could only do it while your opponent is knocked down or something.
  44. Gavisi

    Gavisi Well-Known Member

    Zane's Cheap Throw should mention that if he throws, the opponent cannot draw a card. Geiger's innate has this reminder, Cheap Throw should too.
  45. Majidah

    Majidah Well-Known Member

    BBB is the least fun character I've played. I played against arg and I was happy that arg won. It was an uphill battle to win matches since I was rock-slow and then I'd be rewarded by doing 9 damage. Without aces he's just really really bad, I dislike all of his face cards. With aces he's bearable. I think the best strategy is to throw out normals and throw into normals and then save up face cards so you can use them to power up for aces.
  46. CWheezy

    CWheezy Well-Known Member

    Best strategy is to discard everything for aces imo.

    Block > Ace.

    Throws are worthless, as are non q face cards
  47. Waterd103

    Waterd103 Well-Known Member

    I didnt play yet, but BBB seem to be a character designed for me. I play a lot around figuring opponent hand, what better than knowing the the hand didnt change last turn?

    On the other hand his king card seem bad joke i will NEVER EVER USE.
    The other seem Ok, and thats it. (maybe his J is very good though)

    And its even more funny that one of his abilities is meant to return those useless face cards at the price of 2 cards, one being probably his best card!

    Overdrive seems interesting, fun and weak.

    I would like to try him out.
  48. CWheezy

    CWheezy Well-Known Member

    king is supposed to be a throw.

    He becomes much better then imo
  49. TheMadKing

    TheMadKing Member

    The main tricks I've noticed with BBB:

    -Noogie Loop; repeated normal throws into normals. Noogie->slide->Noogie->slide...
    Since they're losing cards gradually, they're less likely to be able to stop Noogie until you finally run out of throws (which, given how many of your cards are blocks, isn't likely).

    -OVERCLOCK! The main fun use of Overdrive is making face cards less bad; Q is 14 damage speed 1 (Dragon Mountain anyone?), J is 11 2.6 KD, and K is just 16 damage. Mix up with dodge and noogies (Throw -> 2 with overdrive is 16 damage).

    Probably more, but right now 7* is pretty much strictly a fast throw and block. Face card buff would be nice so I don't need Overdrive to make them not suck.
  50. CWheezy

    CWheezy Well-Known Member

    Overdrive is incredibly bad lol.

    Alo his throws suck. Hard ot loop with bad throws when they can just use a normal 2 which beats all you have

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